Ecosystem Podcasts

127 – Sourcing High End Bourbon with Bill Thomas, Mike Jasinski, Mike Miller, and Jared Hyman


This new episode is a flash back to an interview Ryan performed while at Kentucky Bourbon Festival 2017 while sitting with one of the shows all-time favorite guests, Bill Thomas. In addition we’re joined by the likes of Mike Jasinski, Jared Hymen, and Mike Miller of Delilahs in Chicago. This is a regular who’s who in bourbon and it’s great take on the industry of high-end bourbon pours, and the savviness of bourbon markets.

Show notes:

  • Talk about Bourbon Bonanza and Jeeps for Joy
  • What is hunting like now?
  • How is value perceived on a certain bottle when the seller is looking at asinine market prices?
  • Is dusty bourbon supply now able to meet demand and not as hard to find?
  • How do you protect yourself from fakes in the secondary market?
  • Do laser codes even matter?
  • How do you find those value pours at your establishments?
  • View all our other Bill Thomas episodes

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125 – The Export Market with the British Bourbon Society

If you think the bourbon frenzy has gotten bad here in the US, well you don’t know what it’s like to live outside the borders. This episode features Ed Rosie and Andrew Watson, members of the British Bourbon Society, as we we discuss the transition of scotch drinkers to bourbon, the European search for dusties, and how it’s nearly impossible to get your hands on store picks which we take for granted.

Show Notes:

  • How did you get into bourbon
  • What is the British Bourbon Society all about?
  • Talk about the current state of affairs with bourbon in the UK.
  • How much have you seen the EU pick up on this? Are there dedicated bars? Are bartender cocktails changing?
  • Is it cheaper to have your booze imported from a different country?
  • Have you taken all the dusty bourbon out of Europe?
  • I have friends from the UK and when they visit they tend to bring extra suitcases for shopping because things are just cheaper here. How do the prices compare to the US with taxes?
  • How often are you making pilgrimages to go shopping?
  • At this point, Trump is making more enemies across the globe and within our own country. Back in July, the European Union talked about a retaliatory tariff on steel imports. They said there would be heavy taxes on American whiskey. And the senate majority leader is Mitch McConnell who represents Kentucky, so it’s no wonder why they would go straight for the groin. As bourbon begins to boom and flourish in export markets this could really hit home as every distillery is in hyper-growth phases. Fred Minnick had an article on the NYTimes that really touched on the subject. I want to get your opinions on what this tax could potentially do
  • What’s the difference in the legalities? still a 3 tier system?
  • You also have some interesting export only bourbons you have access to. Wild Turkey 12 year. Blantons SFTB and Gold and Reserve. But what do we have in the US you wish you had every day access to?

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124 – How to Create Barrel Picking Groups with Eddie Noel of The Bourbon Cartel

Have you ever wondered what these bourbon barrel picking groups like The Bourbon Mafia, 1789b, T5C, and The Bourbon Cartel are all about?  Eddie Noel, who has a history of founding multiple groups, will guide us into what it takes to form a barrel picking group with the types of individuals needed, the commitment of joining one, and the secret to getting private barrel selections when you don’t have a store to get you in.

Show Notes:

  • Eddie, how did you get started with bourbon?
  • Before we dive in, explain what a barrel picking group does. It should be self explanatory but you know.
  • We’ve talked about barrel selections being a great avenue for terrific bourbon, do you agree?
  • Talk about your history with barrel picking groups
  • Lets talk about the mentality of barrel picking groups. What do you need to know going into creating one?
  • How hard is it to create one?
  • Is it difficult when stores want to keep the barrel themselves?
  • What do store owners get out of it?
  • Who are the types of individuals you seek out?
  • Do they need to be in the same area?
  • Does it help if the members are from Kentucky? (Local to the distilleries)
  • Does having a connection to a store owner make it break it?
  • If you do have that connection, how big should a store be or the volume that needs to be sold to determine how often they can be selected?
  • Is there ever an over abundance of selections? Could it hurt your pockets if you aren’t careful? Can you split barrels with a store so half go to the group?
  • Are there ways to get barrels without knowing a store owner?
  • What are some of the rules of the group?
  • Amy Halter from Patreon: For Eddie Noel, are there ever differences of opinion on which barrel to select, and if so, how does a large group handle that?
  • Are there certain distilleries that treat barrel picking groups in favor versus traditional store owners?
  • Talk about some distilleries you are visiting outside of Kentucky
  • What do you think about finished barrels?
  • Are craft distilleries easier to get on their select list rather than the big dogs like Wild Turkey, Four Roses or Buffalo Trace etc?

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123 – Retail Pricing Wars… Part 2

In Episode 109 we featured two retailers and discussed if there is such a thing as MSRP pricing and how square footage, location, loyalty, and clientele all boil down into how rare bourbon is priced and sold. Eric Darland, a buyer in the D.C. area sent us an email and told us we completely missed the mark. Eric gives insight into the legalized mafia that is distribution, allocation of store picks, and pricing fairly.

Show Notes:

  • Let’s start with store picks and why are they so hard to get outside of Kentucky?
  • Do you think it’s unfair that if a store sells more lower tier bourbon they should have a shot at choosing barrels?
  • Are you losing customers if your store doesn’t have the top-tier stuff?
  • Do liquor stores really make that much money on limited releases by selling at 2-5x MSRP?
  • What’s the difference is pricing in the D.C. area vs Kentucky vs NYC?
  • So you are firm believer in supply and demand and pricing accordingly
  • So your store reaps the benefit of getting 2-3x value. What happens when Buffalo Trace ups their cost to you by 2-3x? How are you going to feel?
  • Would new MSRP pricing end the secondary market? Would we see BTAC bottles lined on the shelf at $600 a piece if that happened?
  • Booker’s Rye and WhistlePig Black Prince releases are good examples of proper pricing
  • Do distiller’s even care? The ultra-premium is less than 1% of their actual revenue.
  • Do you think it’s an unfair fight in regards to passion for someone that lives in KY vs DC?
  • Distribution is problematic. Some people suggested having Amazon being the centralized liquor store. What is an idea of how distribution can be fixed that levels the playing field across state lines?
  • What’s the future of how supply will equal demand?

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121 – The Science Behind Bourbon and Yeast with Dr. Pat Heist

Many of us understand Bourbon 101 and 102 knowledge, but what about level 400? Dr. Pat Heist of Ferm Solutions joins the show to explain what is chemically happening when you’re producing bourbon and gives an in-depth look at yeast and how it becomes one of the most critical components of the process. You will learn all about the breakdowns of enzymes during mash cooking and species of yeast for distilling. If you’re a science buff, this episode is for you.

Show Notes:

  • What does Ferm Solutions do as well as how big Wilderness Trail Distillery?
  • What was your first real job out of college and how did that get you into spirits?
  • Are you tailoring yourself to craft whiskey or do you help with big names on the market as well?
  • Talk about the science behind corn
  • Is there really a difference between red corn or blue corn vs the traditional white/yellow corn? Difference in flavor? Economical?
  • Talk about pesticides and GMO for the grains
  • What about barley, rye, or wheat? Is the breakdown of the pathogens different or the enzymes?
  • Go a bit more in depth about what the scientific differences between sour vs sweet mash
  • How does yeast compete? What about the sanitary levels and how that contributes?
  • What are the differences in the species of yeast and which ones are typically used in beer and spirits production?
  • True or False. Does yeast contribute 15% to the flavor of a bourbon?
  • What are the differences between low-gravity and high-gravity fermenters?
  • What is the cause of a mutated yeast? Jim Rutledge discovered it at one time when it was a part of some limited edition offerings at Four Roses
  • When you’re monitoring the yeast during fermentation, what are you looking for?
  • When I was at Castle and Key they talked about doing yeast forensics to find a closely resembled strain. Is this actually possible or just marketing hype?
  • Gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria. What does this even mean?
  • When does the yeast stop playing a roll? When it’s in the barrel? out of the barrel? in the bottle?
  • Is yeast like a fungi where it can reproduce when it get puts back into a normalized environment?
  • What about beers that go bad?
  • One last question about corn, how long do you age corn in a silo to dehydrate corn and remove moisture?

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120 – High Volume Online Retailers with K&L and Ace Spirits


Retailers need an edge to stay competitive in today’s market. Listen to Louis Dachis of Ace Spirits and David Driscoll of K&L Wine Merchants on how technology is making their business grow on national level and you get a lesson on distribution and why there are shipping restrictions to different states in the US.

Show Notes:

  • Talk about your stores and the markets you serve
  • How have you seen the bourbon market effect your business? What’s the good what’s the bad?
  • How does having a very prominent online presence given you an advantage?
  • Do you see your barrel picks making its way out of state because of online orders? Do you feel that impacts locals?
  • We know allocated items in bourbon are coveted right now. How are you dealing with this surge? Do you reward continual shoppers, even online shoppers that are out of state?
  • Is there a better way to get products into the hands of consumers other than the three-tier system?
  • Why are there so many law restrictions on shipping alcohol across state lines? Why can’t we have a uniform federal ruling that allows shipment across state lines?
  • This goes into global shipping. For example: A Malt like Springbank 21 (700 ml) at Masters of Malt retails for $220ish. Even if I bought only one bottle and paid $40 for ship on the 1 bottle, it is still cheaper than purchasing the 750 ml US version for $390ish. Where do you think a savvy consumer would buy? How will US retail stay competitive in the global marketplace at this rate?
  • In an ideal world where you can sell more volume online, what do you want to see changed?

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119 – Pivoting from a Coffee Bar to a Bourbon Bar with Matt Landan of Haymarket Whiskey Bar

With the current climate of overpriced rare whiskey, how do you turn that into a profitable business? Matt Landan talks about pivoting his coffee shop into Haymarket Whiskey Bar, a staple of bourbon country and Top 40 whiskey bar.

Show Notes:

  • Everyone who has visited Louisville probably knows but we are going to talk about the history of the bar
  • Do you think this is becoming a new landmark on the bourbon trail
  • How are you appealing to the local bourbon community?
  • You also do something unique with the price of your Van Winkles too
  • People on the forums also thought you ruined bourbon for maybe 30 minutes last year too
  • Talk about the new Vintage spirits law and what that means
  • You’re keeping up with it. what’s the latest news with it and where are they?
  • What are some potential pit falls?
  • How do retailers or people like yourself protect themselves from frauds?
  • What mistakes have you made trying to run a whiskey bar?
  • What advice would you give to someone?
  • How do feel about increased competition?

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117 – The Past, Present, and Future of Bourbon with Chuck Cowdery

Is the madness ever going to end? Are those unicorn bottles going to continue to climb in price for the future? How did we end up here? Past guest Chuck Cowdery, a bourbon authority, enlightens us to how the history of bourbon being an unwanted commodity created stocks of well aged whiskey that led us to the market we see today.

Show Notes:

  • Let’s talk about the past and the bourbon, crisis, was it an overall understanding that bourbon might be extinct?
  • At what point did you come in to see some of this first hand?
  • How did advertising work for bourbon? How did you get it into the hands of elders?
  • How did no one see this coming? Like literally no one.
  • You talk about the resurgence of bourbon was partly because of the lack of drinkers because it led to the unintentional benefit of very well-aged whiskey
  • What were distillers doing with this better aged whiskey?
  • Do you think exports are the biggest benefactor?
  • What were bourbon brands doing at the time to appeal to the Japanese and European markets?
  • So people are buying whiskey again, how are distillers ramping up production?
  • Was there a surge of more NDPs and independent bottlers buying sourced whiskey?
  • Why do you call this a “not so attractive” trend?
  • At what point did we start seeing the “shortage”? or is there really a shortage?
  • Have NDPs died off because they can’t source or contract distill now?
  • Will craft distillers put a dent in the market or are they just looking for their piece of the pie?
  • Do you think any of these companies will be “under water” on their investments when the bourbon matures for sales in 4-12 years? Especially when they have to compete with the big boys as they are expanding.
  • Do you think we are going to see people drop off because we don’t have a lot of well-aged whiskey now? We have distillers and craft distillers removing age statements. How will that effect the future?
  • What’s the key to making this trend last?

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113 – Rum Pursuit with Fred Minnick

Fred Minnick, multi-appearance guest on the show and author of the new book Rum Curious, educates us bourbon drinkers on why rum isn’t so bad and how the rum industry needs the passion of the bourbon community.

  • Back in February you had a article named “For Rum’s Sake”, an open letter to bourbon drinkers. Was it a plea?
  • Why rum? There’s lots of other spirits
  • Name a few brands that are accessible in parts of the US that are trustworthy.
  • So what’s wrong with Captain Morgan and those typical ones we all think of?
  • We know bourbon has 3 main ingredients, but what are some of the main ones going into rum?
  • We also have corn whiskey, rye whiskey, etc, any variants?
  • So people want to learn more about rum, besides your book, where are the rum fanatics?
  • Talk about the laws and labels for rum producers
  • What do you think about those companies that say they can create an aged rum in less than 7 days using technology?
  • Thanks to Emmet Klocker that sent us some samples from Lemon Hart, Havana Club, and 1931/

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111 – The Kings of Barrel Picking with Reid & Emerald of 1789b


Reid Bechtle & Emerald Adair of 1789b join the group to talk about the fascinations with the better things in life, how they started 1789b, how barrel selections have changed in 7 years, and the barrel picks they have still yet to do.

  • Introduce yourselves, your background and how bourbon got into your life
  • What are those coins you have in your hands?
  • Explain what 1789b is
  • Where does the name 1789b come from?
  • Do distilleries roll out the red carpet for you?
  • Have the advent of prolific Facebook groups influenced the group?
  • Talk about those early Reid & Emerald picks
  • How has the barrel selection process changed now that you don’t get the pick of everything in the rick house?
  • When newcomers are in the market and they see Billions with Michter’s 20 year and they get caught up in the chase. Do you all get caught up seeking limited releases too?
  • Is there a bourbon pick you haven’t done yet that would be on your bucket list?
  • Listen to the barrel pick we all did back on Episode 105

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