What does it take to pivot from selling the hottest consumer tech of the early 2000s into leading, not one but two, distilleries? Today’s guest is Luis Gonzalez. We’ve known Luis on our first trip out to Old Elk and he forever made an impression on us. If you’ve ever heard Ryan say “sanity over vanity” this the guy that shared that wisdom. Luis has an interesting journey of starting in mall kiosks selling BlackBerry before making his way to executive status at OtterBox and got the call to help build Old Elk from the ground up. His next big move is now stepping into the Chief Commercial Officer role at Middle West Spirits in Columbus, Ohio after the acquisition of Old Elk. For nearly two years, Middle West has been quietly operating in custom contract distilling, aging, and bottling behind the scenes. We talk about how Luis manages massive inventory networks, maintain transparency with customers, and how to avoid the race-to-the-bottom price wars. Plus, we get into how Middle West is already distilling Old Elk’s custom mash bills and what the future holds for all their brands.

Show Notes:

• How a career-ending baseball injury led Luis from Baton Rouge to consumer tech sales at BlackBerry and OtterBox
• Building Old Elk from the ground up and mastering the long-term lead times required in whiskey forecasting
• Transitioning to Middle West Spirits as Chief Commercial Officer and managing commercial operations across multiple facilities
• The hidden power of contract distilling and how Middle West has quietly served the industry for nearly two years
• How Middle West manages inventory, warehouse operations, and custom mash bills while avoiding price wars
• What the transition of Old Elk mash bills to Ohio means for transparency, blending, and future releases

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On this week’s Bourbon Community Roundtable, our panel is tackling two massive seismic shockwaves rattling the very foundation of the spirits world. We jump straight into the first major headline: the shocking closure of Moonshine University. We break down what losing a premier educational hub like the Stave & Thief Society means for the future of spirits education, and whether this shutdown is the ultimate canary in the coal mine for a slowing craft distillery boom.

Then, we turn our attention to the absolute biggest story in spirits retail: distributor giant RNDC filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy and winding down operations. We unpack the domino effect of major supplier exits, razor-thin middle-tier margins, and unpaid invoices, analyzing the devastating fallout for small craft brands fighting for local liquor store shelf space. Finally, we throw down over what this massive distributor consolidation actually means for the three-tier system—debating whether this crisis will finally force lawmakers to rethink direct-to-consumer (DTC) shipping laws, or if we’re simply watching a maturing bourbon market undergo a painful, necessary contraction.

Show Notes:

• The closure of Moonshine University: What losing a premier distilling school means for the spirits industry
• Assessing the value of bourbon certifications: Essential career springboard or mostly symbolic status?
• Unpacking RNDC’s Chapter 11 filing: Supplier exits, thin margins, and the winding down of a middle-tier giant
• The ripple effect on small brands: Shelf space access, unpaid invoices, and the future of three-tier distribution
• Will distributor consolidation accelerate the push for direct-to-consumer (DTC) shipping legislation?
• State of the bourbon market: Reading the room on consumer demand amid industry contraction and adjustments

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A few years ago I was given a bottle by Dr. Pat Heist and it made me say Nevada bourbon? And today, we get to hear the story of Frey Ranch with Colby and Ashley Frey. They turned a multi-generational agriculture operation into one of the most respected craft distilleries in the country. Long before the whiskeys, Colby was growing wheat, rye, barley, and corn in the high desert of Fallon, Nevada. Colby takes us through those early days of battline state legislation and assembling their custom Vendome hybrid still system. Meanwhile, Ashley walks us through crafting the brand’s packaging, and if you own a bottle you know how heavy the glass bottle and and topper are. But there’s a deeper meaning to it and I won’t spoil it for you. From meeting in college to balancing rural farm life, raising a family, and navigating the operational pressures of scaling a modern brand, Colby and Ashley give us an inside look at how they divide responsibilities, manage controlled expansion, and roll out their latest releases.

Show Notes:

• How generations of Nevada agriculture paved the way for a 100% estate-grown, grain-to-glass whiskey operation
• The early legal and legislative battles required to make craft distilling legal in the state of Nevada
• Designing and assembling a hybrid Vendome still system to achieve both high-volume output and maximum flavor control
• The story behind Ashley’s farm-inspired bottle design, including the iconic bolt topper and belt-buckle label
• How Colby and Ashley divide leadership responsibilities while raising a family on a working rural ranch
• Scaling the brand intentionally, expanding into new markets, and what to expect from their upcoming rye releases

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When your entire professional life revolves around premium spirits, late-night industry events, and endless barrel selections, the lines between work and life don’t just get blurry—they can completely disappear. The bourbon lifestyle promises a lot of camaraderie and incredible pours, but what does it actually cost your health, your calendar, and your family dinner table?

On this week’s episode Fred and I sit down for a deeply personal conversation about balancing bourbon with the reality of raising kids. We’re not going to be hitting on tasting notes or anything like that but it’s a look into our personal lives of school, sports, tracking timeboxes on a calendar, and trying to stay present for our kids as they grow up.

Show Notes:

• Navigating school forms and schedule shifts while managing a global spirits brand
• The hidden physical toll of the whiskey trail: Managing sleep, health, and late-night industry expectations
• Kenny’s calendar timeboxing strategy for forcing boundaries between work and family
• Tasting vs. Consuming: Deconstructing moderation and the critical importance of drinking with intent
• Radical transparency: How Fred and his wife talk to their sons about alcohol, driving, and fentanyl
• Using the grueling discipline of youth wrestling to foster positive peer groups and work ethic
• The hidden financial trap of trying to turn a personal bourbon collection into a media business
• The reality of tax write-offs, charity auctions, and the true cost of over-collecting
• A definitive look at long-term responsibility, family support systems, and the power of being present

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Long before the modern bourbon boom, one family bet everything on a credit card cash advance business—and turned a single D.C. storefront into a legendary whiskey empire. On this week’s episode, we sit down with Prav Saraff and talk about an unbelievable immigrant success story that transformed a single, cash-strapped Washington, D.C. storefront into a premier destination for ultra-rare spirits and legendary barrel picks. Prav takes us back to his family’s roots—moving from India to Nepal before grinding through grueling hours in America as dishwashers and gas station attendants to finally buy their first liquor store in 1995. We talk about what it was like balancing high school by day and retail shifts by night, and how a chance encounter with a mentor customer completely shifted their business model away from the low-margin hustle and straight into luxury wine, dusty Van Winkle decanters, and vintage Willett bottles the rest of the industry ignored. Long before the modern bourbon boom, the Saraff family treated hard-to-sell, expensive inventory as a long-term asset, ultimately using their early producer relationships to help put powerhouse brands like Smooth Ambler, Smoke Wagon, and New Riff on the map. Prav breaks down how those foundational single barrel programs revolutionized their operation and laid the groundwork for Dream Spirits—a brand launched to honor his father’s ultimate legacy.

Show Notes:

• From India to Northern Virginia: The Saraff family’s journey and the early days of American hustle
• Betting the future on a 28% interest rate credit card loan to buy a D.C. liquor store in 1995
• Balancing high school with retail shifts: How a customer mentor unlocked the world of high-end wine and spirits
• Buying what others ignored: Taking early risks on Van Winkle decanters, A.H. Hirsch, and vintage Willett
• Treating expensive, slow-moving inventory as long-term liquid gold
• How early store picks helped put Smooth Ambler, Starlight, and Smoke Wagon on the map
• Launching Dream Spirits: Honoring a father’s legacy through independent blending and curation
• Inside the new Virginia estate designed for immersive, memory-making barrel pick trips

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Ever wonder how your favorite bottle actually gets onto the liquor store shelf? I’m not talking from a production standpoint but from the actual shipment. This is a fun episode becuase we’re going to cover something almost completely invisible ito the consumer, trucking and logistics. Joining the show is Rebecca Estes, VP of Sales and Marketing at Mr. P Express. At Pursuit, we talk to logisitcs companies all the time because we’re shipping pallets out the door but there’s so much going on that most take for granted. Rebecca was eyeing to be a college professor but left to join the family-owned shipping network founded in 1987. Rebecca takes us through her journey from joining the family business in 2011 to managing a non-stop, 365-day operation where weather patterns, scheduling margins, and road safety dictate whether or not distilleries hit their numbers. This episode is a look into the high-stakes supply chain infrastructure that keeps the entire bourbon trail moving.

Show Notes:

• Rebecca Estes’ pivot from aspiring college professor to navigating a legacy family trucking business
• The invisible logistics web managing raw grains, glassware, and heavy barrel movements across the country
• Demystifying direct vs. brokered freight, BOLs, pro numbers, LTL, and FTL shipments
• Alcohol hauling regulations, DOT compliance checkpoints, and the immense pressure of control state delivery windows
• The dark side of whiskey supply chains: Deconstructing modern cargo theft, electronic paperwork fraud, and load diversion
• Fleet safety protocols, advanced tracking systems, driver training, and rigorous fleet maintenance structures
• The physics of hauling barrels, calculating axle weight limits, and managing rigid legal driver hours
• Trailer mechanics, truck cab configurations, and an honest executive outlook on autonomous self-driving fleets
• Inside the community-first mission of Mr. P Express, including their specialized driver training school programs

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What does it actually look like when your family dinner table conversations literally shape the history of American whiskey? Well today we’re sitting down with a true legend of Kentucky distilling royalty: 2025 Bourbon Hall of Fame Inductee, Craig Beam. Growing up with a last name that defines the entire category, Craig shares what it was really like sitting at the table listening to his father, Parker Beam, and grandfather, Earl Beam, talk shop about Heaven Hill’s fermentation and equipment hurdles while simultaneously working cattle and farming. Craig takes us through his early days of pulling grunt work in vacant rickhouses in 1983, learning the legendary family jug yeast process, and eventually stepping up as Master Distiller. We even get to hear Craig’s story about how casual conversations while working the farm led to the birth of Elijah Craig, Evan Williams single barrels, and the iconic Parker’s Heritage Collection. A master distiller’s job used to mean grain buying, pressure washing, and lab work and not just marketing campaigns but that’s why he’s here today to give us the details about his exciting next chapter at Jackson Purchase Distillery.

Show Notes:

• Craig growing up listening to Parker and Earl Beam balance Heaven Hill distilling mechanics with western Kentucky farming
• Craig’s journey from sweeping out empty rickhouses in 1983 to mastering the family’s secret jug yeast lineage
• An inside look at how farming conversations birthed legendary labels like Elijah Craig and Parker’s Heritage
• Why historic distilling roles required hands-on labor, from grain buying and lab work to pressure washing warehouses
• How Craig Beam and Terry Ballard teamed up in 2021 to scale a hidden contract distilling powerhouse
• Technical insights into how a warmer regional climate impacts early barrel color extraction and aging physics
• Mapping out Jackson Purchase’s experimental library, including wheated mash bills, air-dried staves, and American single malts

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On this week’s episode, Kevin Carlson returns to the show and takes total control of the conversation with a rapid-fire set of “whiskey myth-busting” questions that every enthusiast needs to hear. We tackle the age-old debate head-on: was bourbon actually better before the boom, or are we living in a golden era of variety and innovation? We break down whether the concept of a true “daily drinker” is officially dead for the enthusiast, and touch on the eternal battle of proof versus flavor. We argue why higher proof doesn’t automatically mean a better whiskey, because there are fan favorites like Michter’s 10 and Weller 107. Then there is the polarizing rise of American light whiskey and the truth behind age statements. We close things out by busting the romantic myths surrounding dusty bottles, the actual hands-on role of a modern Master Distiller, and whether the little guy stands a chance against heritage giants when releasing an ultra-premium bottle.

Show Notes:

• Comparing the lower prices and dusty availability of the past to today’s massive variety and diverse product landscape
• Analyzing how the explosion of available expressions has changed purchasing habits for casual vs. serious consumers
• Why every whiskey has an ideal balance point and how chasing high proofs can sabotage a spirit’s true profile
• The technical reality of the category and why it gets overhyped when marketed under the guise of traditional bourbon
• Why age statements act as a guide rather than a guarantee of quality for aging barrels in Kentucky climates
• How premium presentation impacts consumer perception and the fine line between creative finishing and masking weak distillate
• The operational reality of today’s heritage producers and why a corporate Master Distiller acts more like a ship captain than a hands-on operator

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On this week’s Bourbon Community Roundtable, our panel is tackling one of the deepest geek-out topics in the entire whiskey world: the battle over barrel entry proof and how it has evolved over time. While the modern industry has largely settled into an efficiency-driven standard of 120 to 125 proof, we’re digging into the history to ask the ultimate question: did the industry get it completely wrong in 1962, and does the next decade of bourbon belong at 105? With Buffalo Trace dropping a massive new 15-year-old wheated bourbon at a 105 entry proof and Michter’s continuing to dominate the premium space with their signature 103 entry proof, we debate whether a lower entry proof creates a fundamentally superior water-wood-spirit interaction. We’re breaking down the financial temptation that drove the historical shift to 125 proof, the divide between casual drinkers and the hyper-informed enthusiast market, and examining real-world case studies from Wild Turkey, Maker’s Mark, and New Riff to see if low entry proof is a guaranteed flavor hack or if it still comes down to the skill of the producer.

Show Notes:

• How and why the industry legally moved from 110 to 125 proof in the early 1960s
• Analyzing how volume, barrel costs, and efficiency drove production changes over flavor considerations
• How lower entry proof alters wood interaction to deliver enhanced sweetness, complexity, and mouthfeel
• Distinguishing how everyday casual drinkers view production specs versus the hyper-focused whiskey enthusiast
• Examining experimental releases and standards from Michter’s, Buffalo Trace, New Riff, and Wild Turkey
• Predictions on whether craft innovation will force legacy heritage brands to lower their entry proofs

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Ever wonder what it actually takes to build, run, and automate a distillery? On this episode, we sit down with someone unknown to most of the general population, but he’s on speed dial for every major prodocuer across the country. A 2023 Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame Inductee, and the owner of Distillery Engineering: Pete Kamer. We talk about Pete’s incredible journey from his early days learning the ropes at Four Roses to his milestone career of 27 years at Barton in Bardstown. The distilling world has its own unique engineering hurdles, especially as traditional floor operations transitioned into modern automation. Pete shares his masterclass take on adjusting flavor profiles through still design, yeast, and cuts, and why relying on an operator’s sight, smell, and hearing will always beat looking at a screen.

Show Notes:

• Pete’s career journey from Four Roses to his 27-year legacy at Barton in Bardstown
• The evolution of traditional distillery floor operations into modern automation
• Technical insights into manipulating whiskey flavor profiles through still design, yeast, and cuts
• Why sensory skills—sight, smell, and hearing—beat relying on control-room screens
• The mechanics and engineering hurdles of running a large-scale Kentucky distillery
• The physics and environmental factors that make duplicating the exact same whiskey impossible across different warehouses

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