Ecosystem Podcasts

453 – Will Horses Help Sell a Bottle? with Sean Josephs of Pinhook



The platform of this podcast was to help connect listeners to the brands they see on the store shelves. As time has gone on, sometimes we discover there really isn’t much substance to a brand. But today’s guest is the very opposite. I found myself enthralled with our guests history in the culinary world and what he’s doing to make his whiskey be one that many can appreciate from the liquid to the blending. Sean Josephs is the Co-Founder & Master Blender behind Pinhook. You know all those bottles with race horses on the label and different colored wax. Sean talks about getting his start in restaurants, grinding it out, and eventually working at some of the world’s premier establishments and becoming such a decorated wine sommelier that he would be considered famous by those standards. Consider me a bit star struck by the time this episode is over. Then he finds a new passion in bourbon and opens up one of the first ever whiskey bars in Brooklyn and eventually left to start Pinkhook bourbon. Sean’s passion comes through and we learn the secret decoder ring to knowing more about all his Pinhook bottles and what’s in store for the future.

Show Notes:

  • Above the Char with Fred Minnick (@fredminnick) talks about adding water to high proof whiskey.
  • What’s your background and how did you get into bourbon?
  • As a somm, do you remember the most epic wine?
  • Was starting a whiskey bar in 2008 in Brooklyn a bold move?
  • Were barrel selections becoming popular for restaurants in 2016?
  • What made you want to stop doing bars and restaurants and start the whiskey brand?
  • Can you explain the packaging and colors and how they work?
  • What makes your whiskey special and what are you doing there?
  • How long do you think you’ll have enough whiskey to keep your projects going?
  • Support this podcast on Patreon

452 – Is the Bourbon Boom Over? on Bourbon Community Roundtable #91



Is the bourbon boom really over? Some people think it may. Fred Minnick recently touched on this subject and people began talking about their ideas and buying habits. We wanted to tackle that by touching on publicly traded companies, heresay from our own experience, and if we truly think craft and NDPs are in trouble.

Show Notes:

  • Above the Char with Fred Minnick (@fredminnick) talks about international market not working.
  • Publicly traded companies like Diego and Brown Forman.
  • Consumers buying mainstays.
  • Retailers are cautious about new brands.
  • International markets.
  • Economic impacts
  • Support this podcast on Patreon

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451 – Is There a Real White Oak Shortage? with Danna Baxley of The Nature Conservancy



The barrel is a magical component to the creation of bourbon and nearly 95% of all bourbon goes into white oak. But what’s the problem with this? Bourbon can only be used in a charred barrel once. After that, it needs to find a new home. Now that may sound wasteful but the bourbon market is only a very small contributor to the current white oak problem. To help us better understand about forestry and the white oak supply I’ve invited Daana Baxley from the Nature Conservancy in Kentucky to join the show. She gives some great insight into the current state of white oak trees and what is currently being done to protect our forests. I’ve never known what it takes to manage forests and this episode will give you an insight into grading and how invasive species of trees continue to decline the white oak population. But more so, Daana gives us some insight if we will ever experience a white oak shortage in the future and what we can do to help protect it.

Show Notes:

  • Above the Char with Fred Minnick (@fredminnick) talks about running out of old bourbon.
  • What took you on a path to nature preservation?
  • How are you able to achieve your mission without using scare tactics?
  • Why is Appalachia so important?
  • What does “protection” mean in the sense of a nature conservancy?
  • What is the current status of the white oak species?
  • What is the proper way to manage these forests?
  • What does high grading mean?
  • How has ash or maple impacted the population?
  • How many years into the future are we looking at when we will see a big white oak problem?
  • Is the bourbon industry a problem or is there another industry to blame?
  • Do bourbon drinkers even care if there is sustainability practices happening?
  • Do other industries join in conversation practices like the white oak initiative?
  • Support this podcast on Patreon

450 – Is American Single Malt On The Rise? with Steve Hawley, President of American Single Malt Whiskey Commission



There’s a few things we talk about from time to time on the show. Sometimes it’s RTDs, sometimes it’s tequlia, and one spirit that seems to make it’s way into more conversations is American Single Malt whiskey. However, I told myself that if we’re going to talk about American Single Malt whiskey then we need a person that can really go indepth. What better person than Steve Hawley who is the President of the American Single Malt Whiskey Commission. Steve joins the show to talk about his background starting Westland Distillery and then formed the commission. We talk about the growth of the category, production methods, exports, and it’s current journey to being recognized by the rest of the world.

Show Notes:

  • Above the Char with Fred Minnick (@fredminnick) talks about the effect of climate change.
  • How did you get into the whiskey business?
  • If barley grows so well then why isn’t there a history of it?
  • What is the importance of trying to make American Single Malt an approved category?
  • How did you become the president of the commission?
  • How have case sales grown from 2010 till today?
  • Is the SMWC analogous to DISCUS or KDA?
  • What is the proposed definition of American Single Malt and what’s the current status of it?
  • What rules were valid versus ones that seemed really weird?
  • Why do people prefer pot still for single malt production?
  • When a heritage brand creates a single malt like Jim Beam and Heaven Hill, does this hurt or help?
  • Are American Single Malt producers starting to look at exports instead of domestic education?
  • Support this podcast on Patreon

449 – Ed Bley is Back with Old Stubborn Whiskey



Like a phoenix rising from the ashes, we finally see the re-emergence of Ed Bley. Ed has been a previous guest on the podcast that was from way back in 2018. So if you just started listening to Bourbon Pursuit, then you probably have no idea of the impact Ed had on the bourbon world during that time. Ed went into hiding and went on a mission to bring some new whiskey to the world and he’s now back presenting his new line called Old Stubborn. We talk about his background in blending and the journey he took from working at Cork N Bottle, picking barrels, and being a big influence in the larger bourbon community to losing hope on building a distillery and then quickly pivoting to find whiskey that wasn’t available on the open market. This is one of the most anticipated interviews for many of you long-time listeners so enjoy this episode with Ed Bley.

Show Notes:

  • Above the Char with Fred Minnick (@fredminnick) talks about sustainability and new oak barrels.
  • What is your background and what were you doing on the retail side?
  • How often do you reject barrels during a barrel selection?
  • Can you give some background on Old Baldy?
  • Why would you want to leave a comfortable position to do your own thing?
  • Why would you want to start a distillery versus sourcing barrels?
  • How did you search for whiskey to use?
  • Why did you call the whiskey Old Stubborn?
  • Is there a reason why you put the word “old” on your bottles?
  • Can you talk about how you ended up on the bottle?
  • What went into this first release?
  • How did the conversations start to acquire your whiskey stocks?
  • Is this high price a sustainable business model?
  • What does your product strategy look like?
  • What is your plan for distribution and expansion?
  • Support this podcast on Patreon

448 – When Does An Age Statement Matter? on Bourbon Community Roundtable #90



Whether it’s 2 or 12 years old, the age statement on a bottle seems to be an attractor to many. But as we start diving more into our bourbon journey we start realizing that age is just a number. I’ve had some really great bourbons at 4 years old and some really great at 14. With all that being said, at what point should you proudly display that age statement on the bottle? In this roundtable, we dive into this topic and look at the history of age statements and when we started paying attention to them. There’s also brands that have a lot of success without an age statement like Maker’s Mark and most of the Buffalo Trace portfolio. And now that the modern bourbon consumer has been accustom to seeing age statements, would you pass on a bottle just because it said 4 years old on it?

Show Notes:

  • bove the Char with Fred Minnick (@fredminnick) talks about people hating Buffalo Trace products.
  • When Does An Age Statement Matter?
  • Support this podcast on Patreon

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447 – The Economics of the Used Barrel Market with Ben and Jess Loseke



We’re all too familiar with the barrel and it’s impact on whiskey but what about it’s life after whiskey? Actually, there’s quite a lot. These barrels can be used for aging other spirits, beer, furniture, bbq smoking chips, the list is endless. But did you ever stop to think how those used barrels go from one man’s trash to another man’s treasure? Well, there’s one company that has made a name for themselves and that’s Midwest Barrel Company. Ben and Jessica Loseke join the show to talk about how Ben got into the used barrel business and the economics behind it. If you ever find yourself glued to an episode of Storage Wars or Pawn Stars, you’ll love to hear how Ben stumbled into used barrels and everything else he tried to flip in the process. Today, Midwest Barrel Company is brokering tons of used bourbon barrels and talks about how he develops his sales pipeline and acquires new customers.

Show Notes:

  • Above the Char with Fred Minnick (@fredminnick) talks about price and quality opinions.
  • How did you discover a business in used barrels?
  • Do you remember for you first big score?
  • Did you ever get in legal trouble buying and flipping stuff?
  • What year did you buy your first barrels?
  • How many empty barrels can you fit on a full truck?
  • Who were your main customers?
  • How did you figure out how to scale this business?
  • How hard was it to let go of certain aspects of the business?
  • How do you find new suppliers and new customers?
  • Is this considered commodity trading?
  • Is this a cutthroat industry where you are overbidding others?
  • How fast can you turn around a barrel once you receive it?
  • What are you doing when you steam a barrel?
  • What other things are people making with barrels?
  • How do you know what your pipeline looks like for sales and purchasing?
  • Support this podcast on Patreon

446 – What Do RTDs Do For Bourbon?



Cracking the can on a warm day sounds like something out of commercial. Over the past year we talked about the RTD or ready-to-drink category beginning to explode because of High Noon and now major bourbon brands are moving into the ready-to-drink space since the canned cocktails’ accessibility, lower alcohol content, and mixability make them an appealing gateway for newcomers while still leveraging whiskey’s premium status. Though launching requires significant investment, the potential for brand awareness and category growth is alluring. In this episode, Ryan, Fred, and Kenny sip on 5 different bourbon-based RTDs and give our theories on canned cocktail popularity, health concerns, ingredients, and where the category could expect to go.

Show Notes:

  • Above the Char with Fred Minnick (@fredminnick) talks about the best rickhouse in the industry.
  • Drinking Jim Beam Highball
  • Why do brands decide to get into the RTD category?
  • Drinking Jack Daniel’s Honey Lemonade
  • How important is sugar content in the RTD?
  • Can RTDs be a gateway to more bourbon drinkers?
  • Is it better to have brand recognition before starting a RTD?
  • Drinking Home School Blood Orange Manhattan
  • Is it too expensive to get into the RTD game?
  • What is the shelf life of a RTD?
  • How do you define a RTD?
  • Drinking CANVAS Bourbon Lemon Spice
  • Is Bourbon Cream a RTD?
  • Do prefer carbonation or no carbonation?
  • Drinking Thomas Ashborn Classic Old Fashion
  • Does it matter what kind of bourbon you put into it?
  • Where is this category going to go?
  • Support this podcast on Patreon

445 – How To Deal With Distributors with John Foster of Ragged Branch



Now that we have our own bourbon with Pursuit Spirits, we’re learning first hand how distributors can make or break your brand. There’s a huge learning curve to understanding the lingo and just being able to communicate on the same page. But this can be maddening if you choose the wrong distributor that doesn’t give you any attention and let’s your brand go stale. We invited Johnny Foster to come back on the show to give us insights on how to work best with distributors. Johnny was a guest back on Episode 227 when he was a part of Smooth Ambler but now he’s at Ragged Branch and leads their sales and distribution. He gives the pros and cons of selecting large versus boutique distributors, how to spend smartly on incentives, and targeted marketing funds. Ultimately though, motivating partners comes down to building authentic relationships through regular visits and communication.

Show Notes:

  • Above the Char with Fred Minnick (@fredminnick) talks about the export market.
  • What are you doing today at Ragged Branch?
  • How do you motivate distributors without losing your damn mind?
  • How do you tell a story and justify a higher price tag versus the big 6 staples?
  • What can smaller distillers do to appeal to distributors?
  • How do you guide people on choosing a distributor that is big or small?
  • How do you spend money with a distributor through incentives and programs?
  • What does it cost to get in-store displays?
  • What dollar amount per case do you put towards programming?
  • What makes a company look attractive for acquisition?
  • What are successful methods for marketing and getting product off the shelf?
  • Where do you put focus on chains vs independent stores?
  • How do you protect yourself from contracts?
  • Support this podcast on Patreon

444 – Our Big 2024 Predictions on Bourbon Community Roundtable #89



This is the first roundtable of 2024 and, as usual, we want to pack it with our best 2024 predictions of the year. Some may seem obvious, some may seem way out of left field, and some are even dreary. Yet, the current landscape of bourbon has changed so we’re in for another wild ride in 2024!

Show Notes:

  • Above the Char with Fred Minnick (@fredminnick) talks about drinking too much water.
  • Our 2024 Predictions. Sorry, no spoilers.
  • Support this podcast on Patreon

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