Ecosystem Podcasts

226 – EXCLUSIVE: Confessions of a Bourbon Counterfeiter


In this Bourbon Pursuit exclusive, listen to a story from an admitted bourbon counterfeiter. This episode dives into the motives, operation, and recourse of a bourbon counterfeiter. Listen to how an addiction contributed to a cycle of refilling empty bottles and reselling them on the secondary markets and the ultimate price he had to pay. We hope this interview will serve as a lesson for not only folks connected with these circles, but also for whiskey producers to implement new packaging to protect their consumers.
DISCLOSURE: As a part of the agreement to come on the show, we are not revealing the identity of our guest as he wishes to remain anonymous. Any comments regarding the guest’s name will be deleted and anything shared is not factual and is considered libel.

Show Notes:

  • This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about online alcohol sales.
  • How did you get into the bourbon market?
  • When did you start thinking about counterfeiting?
  • What made it easy to counterfeit?
  • Why aren’t you in jail?
  • How were you caught?
  • What happened when you got caught by the community?
  • Why did you not turn yourself in?
  • Did you feel remorse or just bad because you got caught?
  • How many counterfeit bottles did you create?
  • How long have you been selling counterfeits?
  • Did you ever counterfeit a Van Winkle?
  • What was the fall out after you were caught?
  • What kind of threatening phone calls did you receive?
  • What was it like facing your family?
  • Are you still with your wife?
  • How can someone spot a fake?
  • What did you refill with?
  • Now that some time has passed, how are things going?
  • Did you ever talk to any other counterfeiters?
  • Did you consider it fun?
  • Did you need the money?
  • Are you starting to move on?
  • Have your parents been able to look past the situation?
  • How much revenue did you make?
  • How were your kids affected?
  • What would you say to someone thinking about counterfeiting?
  • What did your friends think?
  • What if you didn’t get caught? Would it be worth the money?
  • Would you ever try to counterfeit again?

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224 – 2019 Bottled-in-Bond Showdown


Bottled-in-Bond. It’s one of the revolutionary moments of American history, but has also become near and dear to many bourbon drinkers with good reason. We covered the in and outs of bottled-in-bond with Bernie Lubbers back on Episode 089 and it’s part of our Bourbon 101 podcasts. Since we know why bottled-in-bond is important, it’s time to find out who Bourbon Pursuit is going to claim as the best bottled in bond bourbon in 2019! We blind sample our way through 12 heavy weight contenders and put them in the Bottled-in-Bond Showdown. Who is going to be crowned champion? Listen and find out.

Show Notes:

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222 – Do Bourbon Brands Care About Their Customers?

If you’re a bourbon die hard, you’ve probably asked yourself this question, “Do bourbon brands care about me?”. You know what I’m talking about because you join in on the conversation when distilleries increase prices or you get angry because your barrel picking group has been snubbed out for allocation reasons. The Bourbon Pursuit team takes a hard look at many of the larger whiskey producers by looking at some of their past actions. But if you’re the whiskey producer, what would you do in the same situation?

Show Notes:

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220 – The Van Winkle Family and Bourbon Community Roundtable #37

This episode is a twofer. You get the Van Winkle Family and the Bourbon Community Roundtable all in one which took place at Bourbon & Beyond 2019. Julian gives history about the brand and the timeline of when it became a part of the Sazerac portfolio. One of Julian’s daughters talks about the emergence of Pappy & Co and how she is more of a tequila person and never really gets to drink any of the family bourbon. Preston talks about their involvement with crack down of the secondary market groups as a counterfeiting measurement. Fred keeps lots of good questions rolling along that you all will find interesting. The 2nd half of the podcast is a live recording of the bourbon community roundtable as we share thoughts on the festival, the news that broke the evening prior, and what we recommend for those who can’t get Pappy. There’s almost too much going on, but it’s timely and full of good info you all will enjoy.

Show Notes:

  • This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Bourbon and Beyond.
  • What was it like when your dad was trying to sell whiskey when no one was interested?
  • Did you ever sneak in and steal some whiskey from your dad?
  • What was it like for bourbon in the 1980s?
  • How did you barter with whiskey?
  • Were you ever worried that you would have to close the company?
  • When you were a child, did you feel the stress your dad was experiencing?
  • Tell us about the moment you realized you wouldn’t have to shut down.
  • What was the thinking behind partnering with Buffalo Trace?
  • What do you think about your haters?
  • What is the relationship with Buffalo Trace like?
  • Does Preston have the same palette as Julian?
  • What’s your favorite expression?
  • Is it ok to drink Pappy 23 with coke?
  • What does the future look like for the brand?
  • Do you plan on increasing the price?
  • What steps have you taken to curb the secondary market?
  • What would happen if you were in the same room as an alleged counterfeiter?
  • What did you learn from the sessions so far at Bourbon and Beyond?
  • Thoughts on the Van Winkle session.
  • Who caught up with Marianne Eaves?
  • If you can’t get Pappy, what do you recommend?

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219 – Limited Edition Bourbon vs Single Barrel Picks with Mikey Conrad

Hunting for rare bourbon is hard these days so many people have gravitated to single barrel selections as a way to combat it in the hopes of getting a stellar bourbon that is less expensive and more appealing. On this episode, we blind taste our way through a series of five comparisons where we try to see if a single barrel store pick can compete with past limited editions. We see if Weller CYPB, Booker’s Rye, 2016 Four Roses Single Barrel, and Elijah Craig 18 are worth the price. We also talk about flavors we prefer over others and how to create your own small batch limited edition bourbon as well. If you’ve done something like this before, drop us a comment with your results.

Show Notes:

  • This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the return of bourbon.
  • Is it worth waiting in line or camping out for bourbon?
  • Tasting store picks vs. limited releases.
  • Weller CYPB vs Weller 107 pick by Cork N Bottle
  • Booker’s Rye vs Knob Creek Rye by Westport Whiskey and Wine
  • 2016 Four Roses Limited Edition Single Barrel OESK vs North Atlanta Bourbon Society OESK
  • Elijah Craig 18yr vs Elijah Craig Loch n Key
  • Wild Turkey 17yr Decades vs Russell’s Reserve by Cork N Bottle
  • How many barrel picks have you been on?
  • Is there something on the flavor wheel that you don’t like to get out of a bourbon?
  • Have you tried to create your own small batch before?

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218 – The Contract Bourbon Business with David Mandell, Co-Founder of Bardstown Bourbon Company

Some people thought it was crazy to build a business doing 100% contract distilling. David Mandell, Former President and CEO of Bardstown Bourbon Company, told us this back on Episode 019. Four years later, we catch up with him to see how the operation has tripled from its original plan. This podcast covers what it takes to be a client of Bardstown Bourbon Company and how they are making 40 different mash bills for them. From the business side, we talk about building a destination for visitors and what it takes to find the right talent pool and keep employee retention. We look into their recently launched bourbon line and what the future has in store for more collaborations.

Show Notes:

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215 – Cocktails for the Right Occasion with Molly Wellmann and Bill Whitlow

Old Fashioned, Manhattan, Gold Rush, Seelbach, Pink Lady. These are all names we associate with standard cocktail menus. Today, we invite Molly Wellmann, owner of Japp’s, and Bill Whitlow, owner of Rich’s Proper, to look at the influence bourbon has had on the bartending culture and when should you use a particular bourbon in a staple cocktail. We then examine the changes of the season and how tastes change between having something refreshing to dark and oaky. It’s all about cocktails for the right occasion.

Show Notes:

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212 – The Largest Bourbon Secondary Market with Owen Powell


Last week, CNN reported that Facebook and Instagram are shutting down all peer to peer sales of alcohol. This wasn’t a joke. In the span of 72 hours, all of the major bourbon groups were wiped out. The secondary market is synonymous with Facebook. The growth of bourbon’s popularity can be attributed to it as well by those that are in it to flip bottles. Owen Powell didn’t create the first group to buy, sell, and trade bourbon, but he certainly created the largest. The Bourbon Secondary Market group is no longer around on Facebook, but the story of how it was built, the ways discussions were moderated, and how it served as a data gold mine for valuations is told. We uncover the progression of the group from a few hundred members to reaching over 50,000, what leads to certain distilleries being banned on a black market, and if the secondary market will actually end if Facebook groups cease to exist.

Show Notes:

  • This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Parker’s Heritage Collection.
  • How did you get into bourbon?
  • Talk about the growth of the group. Were there any growing pains?
  • How many members are in the group?
  • How many admins do you have?
  • What do you look for in admins?
  • Why do people have animosity towards admins in these groups?
  • Let’s talk about the rules in the group.
  • How did the secondary raffle site become its own thing?
  • How does a dispute come about?
  • What do all the acronyms mean?
  • What is the best way to handle a dispute?
  • Have you ever had accusations of counterfeits?
  • How do you handle that kind of situation?
  • Why did you do an open group?
  • Do you keep a log of all the transactions?
  • You’ve banned a few distilleries. How are rules like that determined?
  • Why do you run the group even though you don’t get paid?
  • What do you do when someone prices something too high?
  • What about monthly dues?
  • Do you think groups could end on Facebook?

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210 – Oversaturated Private Barrel Selections with Michael Gallier


We talk about private barrel selections being the new unicorns on this show all the time. But it begs the question, are we seeing so many private picks that the market is oversaturated? It seems like every week there is a new barrel in our city for sale, FOMO about some sweet sticker, or the secondary market has a crazy valuation on a normal single barrel selection. We examine all the components that go into getting single barrels such as the amount of influence from distributor reps, the amount of available barrels at the distilleries, and if you would buy from a big chain vs a small independent store. Will there ever be enough bourbon to go around and not over bloat the market? We’ll find out.

Show Notes:

  • This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Portugal.
  • What got you into to buying private barrel picks?
  • What’s the landscape of private picks in DC?
  • With the increase in stores wanting private picks, are some stores going to get shut out of the program?
  • Do you think distilleries should be taking care of the bigger accounts over the smaller stores that started doing picks earlier?
  • Is there a bias towards certain states?
  • Would you want to buy a private barrel pick from a big box liquor store?
  • Does the local sales rep make a difference?
  • What about restaurant picks?
  • Do you think distilleries are running out of barrels for their private barrel programs?
  • Is the market flooded with private selections?
  • What could distilleries do to give one store an advantage over another?
  • Let’s discuss stickers. Do they influence your purchase?
  • Should stores slow down barrel picks?
  • Why are some people spending so much for private picks on the secondary market?

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208 – Top Chef of Bourbon with Chef Newman Miller

If you’re a fan of good bourbon, then you’re likely a fan of good food too. Today’s guest is the intersection of those two, combining a culinary background with his love for the south and, of course, bourbon. You may know Chef Newman Miller from his appearance on Top Chef season 16. He’s also the Executive Chef and Owner of Star Hill Provisions at Maker’s Mark and the Harrison Smith House in Bardstown. We talk about his culinary background, where he played a part in the creation of the McDonald’s McGriddle and behind the scenes at Top Chef. His deep dive into bourbon was influenced by Drew Kulsveen of Willett. So if you’re a wannabe chef or if you’re an occasional TV dinner kind of person, this episode is going to have something for you.

Show Notes:

  • This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about 4th of July.
  • What was Padma from Top Chef like in real life?
  • What was it like when you heard about being on Top Chef?
  • Why do you think they chose Kentucky for Top Chef?
  • What did the chefs think of being in smaller towns?
  • Was it challenging to cook for everyone?
  • What’s a banana croquet?
  • How cool was it to have the chefs create versions of your dishes?
  • How hard is it to judge fellow chefs?
  •  Tell us about your relationship with Rob Samuels. Was there a pep talk before the show?
  • Were you relieved once it was over?
  • How did you get into food?
  • Did you approach Maker’s about making food there?
  • Will some of the main food distributors come down to Maker’s?
  • What are your biggest challenges?
  • How hard was it to convince the locals to try higher end food?
  • Talk about meeting Drew Kulsveen and how you got into the bourbon community.
  • Where did your passion for bourbon come from?
  • Besides Maker’s, do you have a special bourbon that you love?
  • Tell us about your connection to the McGriddle.
  • Where does bourbon and food intersect for you?
  • Talk about Star Hill Provisions.
  • How do you see the future unfolding for the bourbon/tourism industry in Bardstown/Kentucky?
  • Why did you name the restaurant Harrison/Smith House?

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