215 – Cocktails for the Right Occasion with Molly Wellmann and Bill Whitlow

Old Fashioned, Manhattan, Gold Rush, Seelbach, Pink Lady. These are all names we associate with standard cocktail menus. Today, we invite Molly Wellmann, owner of Japp’s, and Bill Whitlow, owner of Rich’s Proper, to look at the influence bourbon has had on the bartending culture and when should you use a particular bourbon in a staple cocktail. We then examine the changes of the season and how tastes change between having something refreshing to dark and oaky. It’s all about cocktails for the right occasion.

Show Notes:


Everybody Are you interested in looking at the distilling process and pairing that with key business knowledge such as finance, marketing and operations, then you should check out the online distilled spirits business certificate from the University of Louisville. It’s an online program. It can be completed in as little as 15 weeks. It’s taught by both of you have all business faculty and corporate fellows. So you’re getting real experience from real experts at the most renowned distilleries, companies and startups in the distilling industry. And all that’s required is a bachelor’s degree. Go to business.louisville.edu slash online spirits.

Got all for being out of town. And then you know, my 30th anniversary of Booker’s is like down here. It’s like, you drink straight from the bottom right now I’ve been making whiskey sours with it.

Been there

Everyone it is Episode 215 of bourbon pursuit. I’m one of your host Kenny. And as usual, we’ve got a little bit of news to run through. For anyone that has been paying attention to the bourbon scene and social media for the past two years, you may have been seeing some turmoil within the bullet family. Tom bullets daughter Hollis b worth has made numerous public claims about her father being homophobic and it led to her separation with theology, where she felt she wasn’t being compensated properly for helping build the brand. This week the Herald Leader at Kentucky com broke the news that Tom bullet has now taken a step back as the face the company and will not be representing the brand after New claims have emerged of sexual abuse and pedophilia by his daughter Hollis. On August 13. Paula’s told her story on Hollis be official calm that her father has been protected from Dr. ZO for these crimes. A spokesperson for Dr. Joe said the company took worth his claims about her father very seriously and began an internal

investigation after receiving a letter stating all this from her attorney, the audio found no indication that anyone at the audio has been made previously aware of such claims. According to a spokesperson for the company. In an interview, Tom bulleit said the accusations are terrible, they’re false and they need to be addressed and they are just drinks calm has reported a resolution was reached at the start of 2018, which saw worth receive a payment of around $1.2 million. corresponding the amount Dr. Sue says she would have received had her contract been renewed equal to the five year deal as well as unpaid overtime. You can read more about this story from the Herald Leader and just drink calm with the link in our show notes. Castle and key distillery has discharged an unknown quantity of untreated wastewater last Thursday August 15 into Glens Creek, killing an unknown number of fish and this was all reported by state environmental officials. Castle and key told the investigators

Its water treatment system had failed sending untreated oxygen depleting waste directly into the creek. The discharge was stopped around four o’clock pm, about two hours after the state officials received report. lab results are pending on the affected Creek water. Potential penalties could reach $25,000 per violation per day. But the state won’t decide a penalty until the case can actually meet with the company and determine more about what happened. Castle and key confirm the incentive in a statement that they had issued. So those are kind of grim, but let’s kind of switch it up a little bit and talk about something positive because this week’s we selected not one but two barrels at will at distillery that will be bottled as well at family estate. And this is just on the heels of last week’s announcement saying that we have two barrels that will be bottled as pursuit series. It was another hot Kentucky date reaching around 96 degrees but we powered through to select one bourbon and one ride. Central Kentucky tours was our ride and took us from

lovin to the Willett campus. The group asked to start off slow and build up during our tasting. So we tried 207 proof entry, high corn mash bills. Then this was a little bit lightened body the first one so drew tapped into a second barrel that was on the other side of the warehouse that had a lot more of the oak influence because it sat where the sun was just beating down on it. We then headed over to another floor to try the weeded mash bill. And the third barrel was something special because it didn’t have a sweet taste that you would expect Instead, it was kind of spicy, come to find out that barrel used 25% of a ride back set to its sour mash process. We are unsure if we were able to find another barrel is unique is that but we pressed on, we headed out to the fifth floor where it was easily 110 degrees. We got a poor of the OG mash bill and then headed back down to the fourth floor to cool off. This bourbon just had the depth and the punch that you would expect from a Willett family state 125%

Entry just gave way to loads of flavors and oak tannins. It was a crowd favorite. After that was selected that we move on to the rise where we came away with a fantastic one after only trying three. It was a high rye rye mash bill and will be seven years old when bottle. These will all be available to our Patreon community here in just a few months. Thank you to Willett distillery and drew for hosting us. Thank you to Central Kentucky tours for hauling us around and big things to keg and bottle for making this barrel selection available to us. Learn more about Central Kentucky tours and keg and bottle with the links in our show notes. today’s podcast is all about the cocktail. For myself. I love cocktails, especially when I go out to dinner because being a fluent bourbon drinker, you know what it costs for some basic Bourbons on that back wall. So instead, I like to take in the drink culture and try something new that may only be available to that particular restaurant. And the bourbon culture has been getting a big boost from bartenders.

Creating fantastic concoctions. And that’s why we invited Molly Wellmann and Bill Whitlow to come on the show. As we start winding down summer and heading into fall, you’re going to get a better understanding of a bartenders mindset and how cocktails change in the menu. And if you got a favorite cocktail during a specific season, let’s hear the comments on YouTube or Facebook. Now, let’s get on with the show. Here’s Joe from barrel bourbon. And then you’ve got Fred Minnick with above the char.

It’s Joe from barrell bourbon, myself and our master distiller a trip Simpson spend weeks choosing barrels to create a new batch. We meticulously sample every barrel and make sure the blend is absolutely perfect. Find out more at barrel bourbon calm. I’m Fred Minnick, and this is above the char 2019 has been a very bad year for whiskey, not from a sales perspective or even a quality angle. Actually, domestic sales are nice, and I’ve tasted a lot of great new releases. I’m speaking about the news from the international terrorists crossing distillers.

Millions to the bulleit family drama that led to Tom bulleit stepping down whiskies been a daily soap opera this year finding itself trending for all the wrong reasons. For example, last week video surfaced of MMA star Conor McGregor pouring shots for folks at a Dublin bar. The crowd skewed older and didn’t really seem to be into the celebrity when Connor offered shots of his proper 12 whiskey. One man hunkered over the bar didn’t want one or said something to Connor. I don’t know what really happened, but like a cobra striking McGregor’s fist hit the side of the man’s head. It happened so fast that I missed the punch and wouldn’t have seen it if TMC didn’t zoom in and slow motion it indeed. McGregor is a professional fighter and is lightning quick, but he punched an old man over a dispute with his whiskey. That’s a true turd move. But for me, the story isn’t just about McGregor. It’s the fact somebody partnered with him knowing of the potential

consequences and put whiskey in the bottle he represented proper 12 is awful, by the way, and nobody really viewed McGregor’s incident as a whiskey story. Rather, it’s a celebrity story. But for those of us who cover whiskey professionally, we often get pulled into covering these things and it takes away the romance and the fun of a good drink. And I hate it. I can pinpoint the exact moment when my bourbon innocence was lost when covering the theft of the Pappy Van Winkle and wild turkey bottles and barrels. A few years ago, I studied the police reports and saw that one of the arrested persons was suspected of possessing child pornography. Up until that point, even covering the illegal activity surrounding whiskey was fun. After that, I realized that not even our beloved spirit is protected from shit bags. And I often finally look back to the moment just before I learned the evils of some when whiskey was just about the grains, water yeast stills barrels

warehouses. How great it would be where I was just talking about the whiskey. Instead, we have the news of the day. And that’s this week’s above the char. Hey, did you know i curated a super cool auction for the speed museum? It’s September 19, and called the art of bourbon. Learn more at speed museum.org that’s speed museum.org Until next week, cheers.

Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon for it and Kenny here making the trek to Northern Kentucky in the Covington area at a I don’t know this is pretty fancy place. I’m surprised they haven’t kicked us out yet. Yeah, this is like the the castle of the North for for Kentucky. So Northern Kentucky. We are with the queen of the North. So

it will introduce them in here in a second. But I mean, we’re at the MIT club. I mean, I was just I was walking in I was like, usually kick people out like me in here. So it’s

Well and normally I’m here routing Normally I’m dress for a place like this but not today. Not today no beach shirt hat and

socks I wore yesterday that you go on a vacation sometimes you kind of get into that mood you know actually no it’s matter.

We had some some work done in the house today and I don’t dress up for the repair man.

They don’t get the they don’t get the Sundays. They don’t get the good Ascot. But today we’re going to be talking about cocktails. And this is a really This was also a a listener inspired idea. Because bourbon is really starting to come in and be a big contributor to the cocktail culture. It You know, there’s you talk to any distillery, they say, oh, like it’s all about drinking a neat mixing of the cocktail. It’s great for this and this and this. And it’s also inspired, you know, a revolution of things that we’ve seen also with inside of pop culture with Manhattans and old fashions that have

Really kind of skyrocketed as some of the premier cocktails that are out there that are some are all whiskey focused. Yeah, I mean, this story is about, you know, 15 years old. But what it started to change in the evolution of bourbon cocktails is that people aren’t trying to force it anymore in particular like ice for a long time. You saw people trying to create like a bourbon equivalent to the Margarita like that, you know, they don’t have bourbon readers even had a bourbon Rita. It’s it’s not you can’t

you know, so you’re starting to see like true.

You know, people like focus more on bourbon that complements it that people are not trying to force it to be something it’s not in bourbon and my opinion is not the most mixable spirit. You know, you definitely have some, you, you can’t go everywhere with it. It’s very finite. And that’s one of the reasons why bourbon really struggled in the 60s was because they

We’re trying to get people to mix it like they mix vodka. So they were they were promoting bourbon and orange juice, which did not really appeal to that audience. I don’t think it appeals today now. So so the I think finally for the first time,

at least from what I’ve studied in the history of bourbon, I think we have finally found Bourbons place and the growth of the cocktail bar. And that’s a great way to kind of introduce both our guests because both of our guests are really pioneering and spearheading a lot of the the cocktail culture around this area and around the United States as well. So today on the show, we have Molly Wellman. Molly is the owner of objects as well as Molly’s brands and we’ve got bill Whitlow of riches proper in the cocktail creative consulting, so Molly and Bill, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. So before we kick it off and talk about cocktails, kind of talk about your journey into spirits. Like how did it happen?

Because I’m sure that there’s always always some good story behind this. Take it away You go first.

It’s mine. I feel like mine’s a little typical. I’ve been bartending for around 20 years, but for the longest time I was swinging out by visors and mega bombs and ski with steak houses with muddled old fashions and shakin Manhattan’s and it’s kind of what we did.

What until behind the bar for about probably 10 years before I went to New Orleans and had a size rack at you know, down in New Orleans at their moms. We had a real cocktail down there for a music festival and kind of opened my eyes a bit. And then when I moved to Louisville and started managing the bar at the seal Bach hotel, really got the chance to play around with like a real chef. Bobby Benjamin was a chef Tom and really get to play around with flavors and actually have a whole bar full of anything we wanted. We were a hotel that did tons of money, they didn’t care what I bought, and they did

care what I wasted. So that was the first time I really got a chance to do whatever I wanted and play around. And that gave me a chance to do a lot of self discovery as well as learning from an amazing chef. Then when I went over into managing over at crows and mobile,

worked with a guy named Jackie from old force or Jackie’s I can never heard of her. She taught me a lot about technique because I never I didn’t take you know, teach myself that. And she taught me really how to start how to shake your proper dilution, things like that. And then, when I went on with a company called Goodfellas, pizzeria for a number of years, they kind of gave me complete autonomy. Let me kind of just run with it. And we were able to set up some really cool things there and just have a lot of fun with a lot of cocktails and expand past just the bourbon that they’re known for, but also play around in all kinds of different realms. And

now here, we’re going our own restaurant, MIMO life and yeah, play around and have more fun. Well, that’s awesome. So it was

I know you’d mentioned your time down on Bourbon Street. You know, we all love New Orleans, maybe for different reasons than just the cocktails, but it’s on the moves. It’s a

Party City. But it was there a pivotal moment when you started seeing like bourbon become a key staple behind the bar.

Yes, before North when I started bartending, we were pretty high volume restaurant and nicer restaurant in town in Lexington. And we had four Bourbons behind behind the bar. And then I remember when I was at another Steakhouse within the same company, we had like 10 Bourbons behind the bar that was like 2003. And then like a year or two later, we expanded to like 20 Bourbons behind the bar and we got this thing called a lot be and I couldn’t understand why, you know, when we sold out of it, that we weren’t allowed to get any more I was like, so I’m going to just order more. We just need more of it before drinking it order. It was it was coming awakening, as I saw that growth and then

grew exponentially from there. Absolutely. Molly, let’s hear your your coming of age tale here. Now I, you know, it’s funny, I worked in high end retail forever. I worked I lived in San Francisco. And then I got into the service industry, I got kind of thrown behind the bar. And the only thing I knew how to make was in Manhattan, because I drank them all the time, because I was in high end retail. And that’s the only thing that I like, saved me. Anyway, when I throw it in, I was like, just push the Manhattans. It’s the only thing I had to make. But I grew, you know, I learned how to make different drinks and stuff, not not to the craft and classic cocktails that

I’ve known for now. But

when I moved back to Cincinnati, in like, 10 years ago, I started this place called chalk. Right? Kind of like right over there.

And they were like, We need somebody who can do craft and classic cocktails. I’m like, Oh, I could totally do that. I had no idea. But I went home, googled it and I fell down the rabbit hole and that was it.

I loved every bit of it. I studied, I read every old cocktail book I get my hands on. I love the idea that I love the thing that every single drink seemed to have a story. And I loved that I could, you know, learn history through cocktails. I just loved it. So

I’ve I’ve never looked back. So it’s been 11 years now that I’ve been doing craft and classic cocktails. And I love studying I’m still I love writing about them. I love

still entertaining people behind the bar. You know, they get a drink, they get a story with it. It’s like my favorite thing. What kind of stuff can you study with a cocktail? I mean, you said you that you study me? Like what? What kind of, I mean, is it like a history based? Is it just kind of knowing where the origins of it like what kind of talk about that? Kind of the origins? It’s kind of it’s almost like a treasure hunt. So I find it you know, I looked through old cocktail books from over 100 years ago. I love to read the first part of there’s something about like, how


tenders really took this job so seriously, you know, it was such a

every aspect of the job is like laid out in the first, you know, folks the technique or the first part, you know, part of the cocktails, the techniques, the glassware, the ingredients that were used, you know, it’s fascinating, you know, it really is, it’s, it’s the same but different than it is now, you know, and then going through some of the cocktail, some of them are boring. And you’re like, well, that’s exactly the same as this one except the Ito the measurements are a little different.

But then you come upon when you’re like, Oh, that sounds so interesting. Why would I think about that, you know? And then I want to know everything about it, or it has a weird name and like, Well, why did they call it this? You know, I want to know, so then I start digging, and I start looking through your it’s amazing, like all these different

resources, you can find that you can find the stories where this cocktail came from, or kind of get an idea of where in history and why they were drinking this certain cocktail. Does that make sense? Yeah, and one, one

story that we’ve we had a fun conversation about one time what was the Ricky yeah and like how that how the regular regularly this revived ever seen the movie get him to the creek Yes Yes What’s a Jeffrey yeah

what’s not going on that

share share with the audience this this is an example of of like how cool like cocktail history can be Molly share with us the story of the of the gin Ricky’s and the Ricky. So the gin Ricky is really interesting one, there was a guy named Joe, Ricky, he was a veteran of the Civil War. And he was in Washington, you know, Washington DC, and he would go and he would drink every night at this bar called shoemakers, which isn’t around anymore. But he had this idea like he had this idea of being healthy, you know, and he felt that sugar and sweet things would affect his his blood and make him sick, so he didn’t like anything sweet. So the original

Ricky was not made with jet it was actually made with rye, rye and lime juice. He squeeze a half a lime in a glass drop in the Rhine, and then fill it with rye. It’s kind of really disgusting with the right. Cassidy and then eventually it turned to, you know, to gin which is a lot better ice and then soda water on top and that’s adyen Ricky and it has no sugar in it whatsoever. Now, the gin Ricky there’s different kinds of gin. So the gin Ricky would usually always be made with an old Tom gin, which was sweetened gin, which is weird because he thought that sugar but I guess that didn’t count with the old Thompson. But yeah, that’s the Rickey pretty much in a nutshell. Let’s see that see the the story there is

a bartender you know, was very focused on his health. And that, you know, he creates an entire style of cocktails. And oh, by the way, where he’s, you know, his bar. He’s probably influencing a lot of very important people for the time in DC. So yeah,

He actually wasn’t a bartender. He was a he was a lobbyist. And he got the bartender at shoemakers to make this for him. So, I mean, but still to this day people in Washington DC drink gin Ricky’s, it’s like the best summer drink in Washington DC

kind of story. And we’re already kind of leading on to the what we were talking about. It was like this is cocktails for the right occasion. And so you’re talking about the summertime and having a gin Ricky and, and let’s kind of hit some of those different seasons of the year. So you’ve already started off with summer. I think it’s probably proved and we kind of just start there so we got gin Ricky, what other kind of cocktails are going to be good for an a just a little say a back porch drinking kinda kind of afternoon. How about that? You wake up. I’m pretty simple when it comes to summer cocktails. I love egg white cocktails. Yes. That know. My wife’s language there. Yeah. And I’m, I’m trashed me. I have a sweet cocktail.

sweet wines. I’m not your normal. So I love sweet echo.

cocktails young whiskey hours. Yeah. I love biz’s things like that. And then just, of course, whatever the bartender is going to come up with like, Pisco sours, I can show you one of my absolute favorite things in the world. Take Take one of your favorites right there and kind of kind of talk about some of the ingredients because I know a lot of our listeners are probably, they’re curious, they hear that they hear the pisco sour. They hear some of these things with egg whites, but they kind of want to know like, what what what really entails into this that really like a craftsman such as you all could actually create. Welcome pisco sour. It’s a classic from ru ga South America did simply uses simple syrup, lime juice, egg white and Pisco. Right now on our cocktail menu, we change it up just a little bit by throwing in a little bit of the Mexican side of the Doritos, the guava, and then throwing some real age tobacco and weather bitters on top and it changes the whole aspect that makes it slightly sweeter. We actually go to Apple in there as well to counterbalance

Some of the sweetness you’re gonna put any CBD oil in there and, you know, I’ll be honest, there’s a there’s a kind of a hippie Music Festival coming up in like a month. I know that’s kind of how it is but we’re thinking about making some CBD cocktail.

Going into that I got that hippie festival just why not? I haven’t tried it before and I know it’s a pretty upcoming thing. They were everywhere in Las Vegas and we went

sure of A is

like balloons filled with CBD air was like the world you know, you could do that, either. It’s crazy.

actually had to like call the ABC office and make sure we are allowed to do that. No, and they’re right. Yeah, we don’t have anything against it. Yeah, yeah. They emphasized yet I could totally see you as a clever club guy. Ah, no, I think a good coworker. Yeah, I put that on the menu before just people didn’t order so much.

Go for it. I love the clip.

I just had it on my menu. There you go. So the clover club is a classic from the night from 1900. And it was created for a gentleman’s club that met every Thursday in Philadelphia at this hotel called the Stanford Bellevue hotel. Right? And like every one is like the last third has the third Thursday of every month they meet, and these guys would dress up to the nines and they would, you know, all have drinks before dinner. And then they would be led into this room that had this big table that was sheep in a clover clover, you know, set up you know, and they would have this like ceremony, you know, where the youngest member of the clover club would have to like, first sit in a baby chair is not a high chair. And until one of the members was like, okay, you can get up from the baby chair and this is it adults, you know, an adult man, and then he would have to go around with the clover club, sharing cup and then everyone would take a sip out of the

The clover club sharing cup. I still I have no idea what the drink is. But apparently the chef would come up with whatever concoction was in this like flowing cup, right? That would pass. I have no idea what it is. I can’t find it. But then they sit down at dinner and through the courses, you know, it would be like, I think the second to last course they would have this cocktail or a punch. And in 1900 they had the clover club, which is a combination of gin, raspberry syrup, dry vermouth, and and then egg white. And it shaken, you know, so frothy, and it’s this beautiful. It has like this beautiful, sweet flavor, but the driver who’s kind of dries it out a bit. It’s absolutely gorgeous. It really is. And I could totally see you. It’s the it’s one of my jams. Yeah. Now it evolved after prohibition, they kind of dropped the dry vermouth and then they put lemon with it so it kind of turned into a Pink Lady. So this cocktail it evolved, but it’s fantastic.

We dug it I do both. So it depends on the

You know what’s fancy? And yeah, I was like, it’d be hard to have Fred and I go to bar and order Pink Lady. I don’t know. It’s just, there’s just something about the name. If you don’t know anything about it, I think there’s a I’m gonna drink a cocktail. It’s gonna be a Pink Lady.

But if you did tell you that history of where it came from, you know, like, here’s how this evolved. You know, it came from this gentleman’s club. And but it goes for I mean, it wouldn’t have it would have, it probably would have fizzled out if it wasn’t for George Bush, who is the owner of that Stanford Bellevue hotel who went on to help open up that would have a story in New York and he brought that recipe with him making it popular. So really fascinating. That is fascinating. So that was summer we captured so are there a little bit. I got one more for summer because I’m a big fan of the gold rush. Are you what kind of workout kind of season Do you all see that? Any

say summer fall, but I mean, honey really falls anytime for me now. It’s it’s funny like I’m in a very

Similar favorite cocktails to brown derbies my favorite gold rush and brown Derby. kind of related. Can you all kind of talk about the the different components of each one of these as well as so our listeners understand that they’re not sitting there googling like Oh crap, I don’t know. I don’t know what a because I’m not sure what a brown Derby is and I couldn’t tell you everything that goes inside of a gold rush either. So so the brown Derby is bourbon, grapefruit juice and honey, it’s really simple. But when you use the honey, you have to make sure that you water it down make the honey syrup because otherwise you will put honey into this drink and it will turn into a glob of a ball in the bottom of your drink because you’re adding ice to it. So one part honey one part sugar, make a syrup or honey syrup and then it’s about two ounces of bourbon. I put an ounce of

grapefruit and then half ounce of honey that’s how I make my nice Yeah, yeah and you might have a history or better than this summer here a little bit on history but I mean honey sir win that.

fight about that like back in the day like

During the Tiki wars and we’re trying to figure out how to recreate each other’s cocktails and it was so simple as one person couldn’t figure out how he was making that money nightclub open and a drink. Yeah, I had the formula. Yeah. It was Yeah, it was between I believe it was between Don the Beachcomber and

it was in all they had to do is add hot water

silly stupid little things that are so obvious and then you figure it out in your like your face palming because she figured out a long time ago so for Katie, you know, I know he’s gonna follow up with this the Gold Rush, break that down. I mean, gold rush is just as simple as that three part lemon, honey, Jen, I,

a lot of these cocktails, all these classes, all these things are easy, you know, renditions of each other, just replacing one ingredient with another. You can go to the Daiquiri, which is another three part, you know, just some sort by rum game. What’s Gen line? Yeah, it’s, it’s all these different ways of just doing your two, three

Quarter three quarter kind of sour recipes and tart recipes. Okay, okay so Fred already kind of alluded to it let’s kind of move on to the next season let’s let’s enter the the fallen winter time because it’s a little little darker a little warmer kind of kind of talk about what are your favorites during those those periods? Well, I mean for false, I mean, everything bourbon, I think a dark rum.

Rum cocktail. What I get into something warm and cozy. I mean, I get into the warm I know it’s more

more winter. I think I get really excited in the fall when that you know, first colbrie starts to come in that first leaf falls. I want to start making tardies all over the place. I mean, already, I don’t I do. ciders also.

That’s kind of grabs my jam. Yeah, we get all season local cider and put it like heated up and then we add, you know, whatever, whatever. Like it usually is bourbon or around

the cider and it’s like everybody’s favorite. It’s awesome.

So yeah, and people really start grabbing on like heavy hitters cocktails more so even in the fall than in the winter, because I think in the winter they’re used to getting cold that point use once third boozy bourbon cocktails but I can use a lot of crazy bitters cocktails in the fall.


things like I have a one I do like bourbon and apple and ginger beer, but then a ton of barely bitters and it almost tastes like an apple cider and you just kind of get into those really

jagged, not like Irby. Yeah,

like those coffee, you know that the whole tomorrow thing. It’s not my jam. I have a lot of bartenders who are like lava Mars and Mars are Italian bitter spirits pretty much in the right way. In the right way. I hate shooting and I got shoot me down probably will get shot for being a bartender who’s not a big fan of for net.

Goodbye for me. It’s not like

rumble that I’ll just throw away but you’ll never ever see me order a shot for net and that’s what every bartender out a kiddie that just so you know this is a this is an industry thing like the bar like you go out with a bunch of bartenders somebody inevitably gets a round of for net and I think it’s like someone you know for net has,

you know as you know putting little envelopes all over the country

or something but it’s like who in the right mind would order it? It kind of reminds me of I saw I saw a picture the other day on the internet that said there’s a secret society of people living among those that are still keeping long john Silver’s and business.

So this is probably like that same, that same analogy. So true that places grow.

Like this.

And I gotta say, Molly, you know, went to fall cocktails. I was kind of shocked that you didn’t talk about a punch. Well, yeah, well, I was getting there.

I know how much you love.

I do I love punch. I think it’s, first of all, it saves every party. It saves every host hostess at a party, you know, but the history behind the punches are,

are the best, the best. I mean, there’s one it’s more of a, I think a Christmas punch, but I started serving in the fall, the admiral Russell’s

punch is so great. I mean it has its its brandy and Sherry. And those are the two main things and then lemon and and then there’s a sweet to it as well. So punch means five in Hindi. So five different components or another spirit sweet, sour water and spice that is a template for a really good punch and punches date back almost 500 years, you know, it started when you know Europeans started, you know, traveling all over the world, you know, putting merchant companies into different parts.

The world the English pretty much in, in India, and then once they get to this, you know this country, you know, the native people trying to make sure that everybody’s refreshed. You guys think like people just didn’t get off the boat and like, give me water, you know, they absolutely they’re like, I need a drink, you know, and usually it was liquor or something that was some kind of alcohol and they couldn’t trust the water, they drink the water, they get sick. Yeah. So it was very a lot of people didn’t drink water, you know, they drink, you know, ale or wine, you know, or spirits. So, making sure that everybody got refreshed in this hot country, you know, pulling all their resources together and mixing it all together in a big bowl to make it palatable punch bill.

It sounds like it was just like a means to survive and what punch really became well think about this. So the admin Russell’s so I’m gonna tell you the story. There was a guy named Errol Russell. He was in the English army 1600s and he was traveling of the

coast to Spain. And he decided on Christmas day to get off and throw a party in the city of cookies. And in CODIS, they had this huge fountain in the middle of like the governor’s courtyard or something like that or the town. And he’s like, well, we’re going to use that as a punch bowl. So they poured in, you know, these big you know, barrels of brandy and Sherry spit a Sherry and then added limes and added everything and they It was so big and there’s so many there’s like 600 people there. They had to get the cabin boy from the boat in a little lifeboat to serve the punch. Everybody got naked, they drink the place dry and then everybody had a great hangover the next day. I always think how cool it would be if I could do this at Fountain Square in Cincinnati. If I get the mayor to let me like use Fountain Square it as a drinking fountain. You know, I could use it as punishable. Would you recommend everyone getting naked? Yeah. I

mean, gosh, we’re not that conservative in Cincinnati.

Naked fun run around there somewhere anybody’s gonna like break that conservative you know boat it’s gonna be me

to all our listeners out there start petitioning Cincinnati mer for Molly’s naked fountain party party love me oh god

well and maybe that could happen to at the party. Yeah You never

know blushing or anything No, it sounds awesome. I want I want the invite to this party. Yeah, it’ll be epic.

Yes, punch is great. It really is so easy to do. That’s good. I mean, that’s that’s a history of punches that that I had never known about. Seriously up until now. But you know, the other thing that we want to kind of talk about too is

you know, I guess we’ll stay on the cocktails the right occasion kind of part kind of talk about, say, say Fred and I were you know, we’re taking our wives out. what’s what’s that kind of cocktail bourbon kind of cocktail at that.

Somebody could go out on a date with their wife, nice romantic place and maybe kind of maybe guide her in a way to say like, you need to try this other kind of good bourbon cocktail. Because my wife isn’t Are you asking how to man’s playing to her?

I’m just trying to figure out like, how can I get my wife to drink more bourbon cocktails? Right? I know I know this is a Ryan Brian property because his wife is only only drinks wine and she she probably knows is I don’t got that problem with Jacqueline and I got the opposite problem. I got home from being out of town. And then you know, my 30th anniversary of Booker’s is like down here. It’s like, straight straight from the bottom right now. I was rapping making whiskey sours with it.

Been there.

We were finishing up a new year’s eve one evening, we got home late night from the bar and we had a couple friends over and I was like, hey, let me push out a bourbon for everybody. Let’s celebrate as I can just go grab a bottle for some shots. She comes back and

I’ll take a shot all kind of wins and it was a I was it was definitely a barrel proof. Okay, I 12 years.

You know, they’re like the 120s and 30s or whatever and I was like, well, that happened

a little shorter. But

my husband doesn’t drink bourbon which I married. That’s the reason why I married him because you always need a driver. Yeah, that will. Not that much but he doesn’t get into my bourbon collection. Except if he has like a tattoo guy because he’s a tattoo. When somebody is visiting and they’re in the bourbon. He’ll open up my, you know, my pantry which used to have all my bourbon in it. I’ll be like, pick one.

world is yours. Yeah. He got in one time to my 2013 Elmer Tilly that was given to me by Omer TVO you know while ago sign and it was like cherished, you know, drank the whole thing. I was so mad. I was divorced and I was like

you like


high is like models that you cannot touch is like, she can’t even reach it. And I think she knows at that point she can’t reach it. Don’t touch it. My wife, my wife will climb the shell to get it. Oh, he wants me not to have that one. So she ended up she ended up having a bourbon that I couldn’t touch. She got a bourbon women barrel pig. Oh, and, like, Peggy is the one who gifted it to her. She’s like, Fred can’t have any of this. And so, you know, I couldn’t have any until I eventually got permission and when I got permission, I drained that.

Anyway, I know he’s gonna I know.


got to figure out like how, you know, I think what Kenny’s looking for, like the gateway, what is it? What is a gateway cocktail to get people into bourbon? I know. It’s a seal buck. I know. It’s like, whatever cocktail. You know if you have those. Yeah, I mean, it works.

It works. The robot cocktail is a champagne cocktail. And it had a story that a lot of people thought was true. And then we found out it wasn’t true. I worked at that I was the bar manager at the CEO bar before the, you know, huge wall street journal article that kind of threw out the old historic story of the cocktail. And it hurt me a ton because I use it even after I left the seal Bach to introduce people to bourbon and I’ve still got people that come see me to drink the COI cocktail. I had a couple who came in for their anniversary the other night and they’ve been drinking from me for years. And it just hurt my soul When I

see her. We’re just like, fraudulent.

Oh my god. Well, I think it’s safe to say that everything in the spirits business is bullshit. You know, JN true. Your your book. What does it bourbon cure? Yeah, I read that a few times. Thank you bit about that. Yeah, just you can’t trust anything.

Ricky stories is pretty legit because the guy wasn’t really in the business. You know the real guy well back in the day before smartphones,

shit to

throw anything at you is fantastic but you know a great story is a great story and it does create an experience No matter if it’s true or not. So I say Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story. That’s right. So tell us about the seal Bach what’s the best bourbon to use there? What’s the best champagne? How do you make it work? I like First of all, I like to use a sugar cube. I don’t know if he’s a sugar cube use sugar. I don’t know I use just a splash of simple syrup about consistency. And I like I like the sugar cube because I love the little crystals that go through it. So sugar cube, I douse it with both Angostura and patient bitters. I’m heavier on the patient with an iron Angostura. Yeah, a little more citrus for Yeah, it makes it a little more crowd pleasing. Yeah. The CEO box even at the hotel, I had it sent back

When I would do super heavy on both yeah started bringing down the Angostura a little bit yeah back OD became more palatable for the masses so that and then I like to use just for your for roses yellow label for sale bought because it seems to be a little lighter you know worse there for me I leveled for sure but there’s something about I don’t know the when I like when I make

for some reason for roses yellow label has a lighter

lighter something about it for these lighter cocktails I use that another one my cocktails it’s one of the most popular on our menu. I actually like the the old force you can still a little bit of spice it has yet to go against the champagne and a little bit of sweetness in there. So well and then I top it off usually with a dredge Prosecco and then the champagne does any dry but we have used Prosecco or dry champagne. And you do use terms like or do you use like in my strike here, I use I make my own Triple Sec. So I triple sec, just a little

Orange look for so that brings it all together and there’s something about this so you still can taste the bourbon but it’s not overpowering because it’s lightened up with the champagne.

So any any not just bourbon, but you don’t use a little ins and outs of bourbon and when I make so it’s not like overpowering people and a half

and half the triple. Yeah, there’s been a lot of differences between these. It’s really good. Just a simple cocktail. Yes, it’s fascinating. Oh, I don’t think it’s the right answer. That’s why that’s why MIMO we’ve been friends for a long time. It’s because we understand that it’s the great thing if you know there’s there’s certain cocktails, you know, everybody like little fashion for instance, everybody makes their own fashion different. They really do. I don’t I don’t think I’ve ever had unless it’s a bartender that I trained on how I make my old fashions. I don’t think I’ve ever had an old fashioned same hopefully they’re making it the same way.

Yeah, I’ve done that before.

Hear that before where people like know we’re going to model this I’m like no not in my bar we’re not doing Have you seen the YouTube video? The woman Oh talk

last night yeah 715

army we used to talk them with soda. Like I used to call that the steak house old fashioned. Yeah, that’s how I learned it. Back in the early 2000s. We were you know, we were modeling orange and cherry and throwing a couple sugar packets in there. soda water and it was and this is a white tablecloth Steakhouse that Yang $10 a cocktail, at least you didn’t like just take a thing of simple stare and go, you know, like this. I’ve been a bourbon police, a bourbon place downtown August they were and the guy was making these old fashions. He’s just like, it was like probably like a full house and half a simple syrup in the glass, and then bourbon on top and then and then he just threw a cherry and an orange in there. I was like, oh my god. It’s like we both know some places around here that we might not go to and go back

Drink bourbon. No, no, no. Is it hard for you to go places when you see when you see other people like creating cocktails and you’re kind of like, send it back like every day? do you do that? I mean, what’s your there? I have I mean not not because I will spin people who don’t who didn’t understand the egg white thing that you have to actually shake it a lot. And he got outlawed in some areas. So there are some cities that have outlawed horrible things back. I mean, it was slimy still, it wasn’t it didn’t have the aeration of the A. And I’ve said back old fashions because they were just so sweet. Like it just was disgusting. So usually though, I don’t do that. I just ordered a bourbon on the rock.

I don’t drink cocktails, the whole I drink more cocktails and I’m out of town. Yeah, for some reason. When I’m out of town in a different city. It’s kind of inspirational. It’s kind of like getting a feel for where you’re at to drink more cocktails. Or if I’m at a, you know, a new restaurant or bar in town that I haven’t had cocktails at, but if I’m going to visit my friends at their bar, I’m not ordering cocktails from them hardly ever

They might make me something they want me to try, but I’m drinking a beer bourbon. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t drink beer so I drink a lot. OJ go Martini. I drink Beefeater martinis or Plymouth martinis depending on my jam. Good. Yeah. Jim.

So let’s go back to like the the entry level kind of cocktails.

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So let’s go back to like the the entry level kind of cocktails. One that I have found is almost a surefire winners not really a lot of people’s radars. And that’s bourbon slushies, huh? Oh, yeah, I mean, I have yet to find someone who didn’t like bourbon.

But I introduced them to like a really nice bourbon slushy recipe and they were just wow, do you guys do anything with slushies? I have I have snow could thing.

It’s not Snoopy either.

I have it’s like it’s harder for me. Um, it’s kind of breaking the law to do those. And I’m pretty stickler for those things. A lot of the people that pre mold it’s against the law to have a slushy machine as a as with drinks in it in Kentucky. Yeah. Yeah. Oh,

hi. Oh, that’s completely legal. No, I’m not doing that in Ohio. But man, I was going to open a slushy liquor bar in Kentucky and now it’s all

right now as it stands right now in Kentucky and I had to check this recently. Because we wanted to do so she’s a

spirit has to be served from its original container last being consumed immediately. So by their iteration and Kentucky, if it sits and

mixture of less than 24 hours then you can serve it out of a machine or a pre mixer things like that. If it sits over 24 hours it’s no longer legal. So interesting right so yeah so no barrel aged. I we when I was at my old Goodfellas we got rid of our house michelman show we got rid of our barrel aged cocktails all because there were some a couple people that got hit by the ABC on that Eric Gregory if you’re listening to this with this on the Kentucky distillers associations I don’t mean to throw it out there sorry. We saw

hillbilly Eric not who he was up nobility Yeah, but he got hit hard on that and it shut him down. Wow, I did not know that. Yeah, I watched a restaurant go down in flames because of something simple like that. And I don’t I’m not gonna risk the entire business doing that we got a few emails will send after this one to some friends who

I had no idea but I mean, you say things like, okay, like more beverages wine that’s not 100

Spirit you can do like local things like that. No saucy vermouth cocktails. Well you said you actually brought something up that that I always love going places and I’ve had good ones I’ve had bad ones that barrel aged cocktails kind of talk about your we got a yes and a no

go yeah it’s very age who we send out in we did right across up I love that one. So I don’t I love I love to use, you know, aged products to make a fresh cocktail. I don’t think it doesn’t taste fresh and it comes out of like, if you read if you make a cocktail, you may begin to granny or Manhattan and he put it into a barrel.

I hate that. I mean it kind of rounded out the rough edges you had to do it correctly like we would do two barrels. We took one barrel was our serving beer and we put paraffin wax on the inside so it’s no longer reactive because people will keep it in a fresh barrel where it becomes over age and many tannic rough on your palate. If you get it to the right point and then change it over to an honorary

barrel that’s where I think you you keep it is so you would age yours to a certain time age it to what we thought was right and every time you use the barrel it changes a little differently tasteful different so you’re tasting and every couple days a week or so and then you bottle it yeah cabin and then you have you’re serving in st you’re you’re serving barrel that we paraffin wax and you would fill that up and serve it from there. Yeah. Oh

I love Sam fights breakout

no I don’t like oh, no, no, we’ve had differences opinion before so

I’m just not really drink is barely, you know, making them anytime soon. So I gotta tell you I kind of lean with Molly on my opinion of barrel aged cocktails. Like I have found them to be over tannic way battery the essence of the spirit is often lost. And if there is any kind of citrus in it, I

Swear to God I said wait hold on so I put sisters in a bed so you can put sisters in a very shocking that’s just

I think that’s the thing is like people think that they can just like make a cocktail and throw it into a barrel anything you know, and they don’t realize there’s some oxidation that goes on is very unsafe. I think it just you got to know what you’re doing it’s like Molly knows what she’s doing what she’s making tobacco bitters, but tobacco bitters are dangerous part to me. margins are playing around with activated charcoal they’re out there playing around with things that they don’t know fully about. And there it’s not exactly Well, the the nitrogen one there’s been a couple cases of customers are having burning their throat or having their stomach. Huge lawsuit with George Clooney, his old brand new they sold Castillo because of ego. They were having a party like even after he sold it or whatever. And somebody like Woody was out of work for eight months because they destroyed their esophagus on dry ice stupid. Well, yeah, don’t use dry ice at home now.

There’s so many things you show me that I’m dumb down. Well, let’s keep the the disagreements going here because

so this is this is another one where I think our listeners would be interested to kind of see what is the right bourbon for the right type of cocktail, because you’ve got, you’ve got your weeded, you’ve got your high rise, you’ve got your low rise, you’ve got your craft that has sort of a more of a grainy flavor to it. So with these four, like where did they fit in inside and there’s one other kind, the kind where they’re paying you to put it in the cocktail?

competition competitions and things. I guess this will work.

I don’t know if you agree, but I rarely and this is gonna be a kind of a blanket statement. I rarely find that we did Bourbons go into cocktails for me. Like a smash. Yeah. But not too often do I use a weighted bourbon and cocktails? Yeah, don’t use a lot of we I mean unless I have to for like makers or something.

Right What do you mean less I have to well like you said like like if they’re you know paying for it like

a lot of makers things and I you know I usually will like figure out the the cocktail for that you know it really well I mean

makers find to be a little sweeter so not

and not as complex as a lot of the other Bourbons I love makers don’t don’t think that I’m like putting it down no telling telling you like what I think I just gotta like you gotta figure out like what to put in it so that he doesn’t like Lakers in a smash right it’s about the only thing I put it I love smashes that was like one of my favorite like a Bramble even Rambo works I mean, I’ve made Maker’s Mark brambles All right, y’all gotta remember

talking other languages fruit, smashed fruit and

and then your spirits and sometimes I put citrus in

Bramble and then top it off with spotlight club soda. Very simple, easy to make it home and bright cocktail. Yeah.

Like switching up the Bourbons there’s lots of times where like a competition is happening and you make it with the bourbon gives you have to but you know it tastes better with a different burger. Yeah, that’s how I’ve done that plenty of times. I’ll just switch it up and put it on the menu with a different bourbon even though the competition required this and that. What’s the ultimate bourbon mixing? cocktail? My what’s the what’s the cocktail mixing bourbon? I love old forester January. I mean, even my bar uses a lot. I will say there’s bourbon. I’m gonna hate me for saying this. I’m not a big fan of Woodford straight.


straight out my favorite

other products but then like we said, we both love old forester. Yeah, if somebody buys me a word for it, I’m going to drink it, but you know, but I’d rather drink old Forester, the old forester signatures.

jam you know I say go for some signature all the time and it’s not on the label anymore and

I go give me a bottle versus signature well

I noticed both of you all mentioned four roses yellow label to time to update.


I love you been around the block you reference I brands I love using

in my well use I use Ancient Egypt 10 star for can get it if not benchmark. Ancient ages are well yeah.

And then sometimes sometimes Evan Williams if I can’t find those other two that’s how it goes in Ohio though. So there’s a great for mixing if I make an old fashioned I use old granddad 100 or bonded if I making a Manhattan usually it’s old forester. You know, or you know man, maker smart makes a great old fashioned


Deal force arrived

in Ohio know when I started using that all my Manhattans so

I like right in my man hands too but I think in this area there’s something about a bourbon man and I don’t know maybe it just goes back to that me working in high end retail and it was always with a bourbon. That’s what I always did it with and I kind of gone back to using rye because we use it also in black Manhattan’s which we serve a ton of and the rye helps cut through that tomorrow a bit. Have you ever made white Manhattan’s Have you ever used a nice whiskey and made man?

I feel like I probably have at some point but I can’t wait good. Yeah, yeah, shame on HH whiskey. I got white dog. Yeah, us especially that. What is it the OMG the

What is it? What is it out in Utah? What are they?

totally blank. And yeah, they’re OMZ is this still called that? I can’t get in Ohio. This what I used in Kentucky, but that with orange bitters, and then

dry vermouth instead. Holy moly you’re a bigger fan of white dog and I know we discussed this before I I enjoy it but you like to sit around just sip on it I like the Buffalo Trace mash one. She’s, she’s old school. Love it. So when we look at you know bourbon cocktails we tend to look at it from like it’s it’s a price thing. It’s usually the $30 and under. But there are some bartenders who will slap you know, slap a little Pappy in, in a cocktail shaker. Do you guys ever go crazy and put like an alley or super allocated?

bourbon or rye in a cocktail? Yes.

I got two ways of saying it. One is you’re paying me the money. You’re the one paying for the whiskey. I’ll do it. Do you enjoy your way but anytime anyone’s ever ordered a patented coke for me. My way of serving it has been I give him a glass of Pappy I give him a glass of coke and I give him ice and tell them with it being such a nice bourbon. I wanted to give you the component

You can mix it yourself to the appropriate mix. I’ve never mixed the coke not once so I try to not be offensive by Tom mirror. Wow fucking idiot

my bartenders always say I’m good at saying fuck you with a smile.

Like, my husband’s always like you really good being like fuck you but your hair looks really nice.

Now I’ll just say I, I feel like

I’m at my bar I’m there I’m I control the bar and I am there to educate people on what they’re drinking, how they’re drinking it. And so I will not serve them a copy of coke. I will educate them on why they shouldn’t drink this with Coke. If it’s really it’s, I mean, they push it then I probably do the same thing but I have never had do that. It’s happened me a few times that actually add a few bars. had to do that a couple times. But like I said, it’s never gotten mixed. They’ve always thank

Me In the end I appreciate you not letting me ruin that that

you know the best thing out there and you know that’s what obviously we go into it to our walk on this you probably don’t need it I did you set up the next podcast. My sister took her to wild turkey though, you know Lawrenceburg and we did the high end tasting and right in the middle of it she cracks open a diet coke was died like my sister of all people. You can’t do that. Like you cannot mix that with the diamond.


So sorry.

It’s apologize to our family wild turkey too for that.

So another question I kind of had for you. You know, we’ve all at least in the bourbon world, we see stuff on the shelf, we buy it, we all make mistakes. It’s it might be like I said it could be craft and a little bit too green forward. We’re just not a big fan of drinking it neat. Is there a cocktail that you can use to make these a little bit more palatable?

Absolutely yes so kind of kind of talk about where ginger ale and

fancy it up a little bit rather than just adding ginger ale but you can always play around on something and doing something that is really going to cover flavors Manhattan’s and no passions more enhance and you can do some stuff and a heavy smash or do a bird a sour even that I help cover it. Still I’ve had some I had to come through bed but yeah, let me let me I’m sure you guys get stuff sent to you sometimes from yesterday. Just show up. Yeah, yeah, twice, not mad about it. But sometimes it’s usually from a newer distillery or a craft distiller and it’s not that their products. It’s not bad. It’s just different than what you’re used to, you know, no.

Bad. I’ve had some stuff where I’m like, Oh, this isn’t bad. It’s just it’s just different. Yeah.

dozy Tyler yet have you all for God’s sake.

Shit. Bad. So

one of the few that I’ve it spit out I’ve had, you know, he’s like drywall. Yeah, got

some I poured me one recently to that I had to spit out it was out of a tin can. I can still


So there there’s a

you know, I write reviews I score whiskeys and people started pointing out you know if you really don’t like something you say would make a great cocktail bourbon and I didn’t I really did not realize I was doing that. I’ll be honest, I did not realize I was doing that. But I was passing it on to like, yeah, you know what it’s drinking need. It’s cocktail bourbon, but I have found that there is one note and some of these, these Bourbons that you cannot get out if it’s a bad one. And it’s that over charcoal Lee woody know, it’s like there

Nothing that I’ve been able to find that can cut that Do you have any recommendations for like how to cut cut that charcoal that over woody note that you find a lot of two year old craft bourbon because like what I call it is that new bourbon tastes like this the big green exactly No. I mean, I just did I just had a bourbon and I it wasn’t that was bad. It was really good. It was different. And by a very really respected new distiller new distiller who I have a lot of respect for.

And I couldn’t figure out what to do with it but finally ended up infusing apple juice with ginger fresh ginger of all things and it turned to it turned out to be one of the best drinks ever. It was just real apple juice. And you know mashed up ginger that island infused drained it out. And I just that’s all I mixed it with it was fantastic. And it did it It didn’t it wasn’t like a covered up that green.

New taste it in it.

It kind of like complimented it. Yeah. Flavors the parties in a new tasting so bad. It was the bomb. Like I can’t wait. I mean, I drink that whole bottle with that cocktail was awesome. Not in one sitting. I mean I’m not

yet thing is I don’t like to try to cover up the bad taste a lot of times I also don’t keep that at the house at for me it’s like you don’t want to build a mansion on a shaky foundation. You know, your, your bourbon is the foundation if you’re making that cocktail, but you got to think like a lot of cocktails were created because the liquors just tasted so shitty. You know? That’s true, too. You know, so we’re not at that. That handicap nowadays. Yeah, maybe I’m a little spoiled. I don’t think a lot of cocktails at home so I will smoke them when I get to use it the bar. Yeah, absolutely. Now I’m picking them up like I’m just kind of like going full circle here. Like I’m sure we could think of like, we’ve got our we’ve got our boss

That we can’t get rid of but we gotta we got to make one big punch one day with everything I don’t know what it is but maybe that’s what it was there was wasn’t there one of our friends didn’t carry have the suggestion of like having that you know drink your bad bourbon day like having a big party yes big online party

absolutely terrible Sunday day after you don’t know how bad my my my collection is. Everybody said to me so

if you ever judged the ADL

I mean, I know my palate was in shock for three so so for those who are listening at eyes, American distillers instituted they have a they have a giant you know, they bring in prominent tasters to judge their whiskeys and the rise and their chins and vodkas. And I gotta tell you within like, you know, these are new distillers and they’re honing in their skills and figuring it out and you know, we’re there to try and help them and it took me probably three months for me to get my

back and saving I needed to like I felt like I wanted to rip my tongue out and lay down and take a nap. It was the most craziest

is the craziest thing I was I was exhausted each night, you know, just from senior Casey and I were like, do I have to do this again? Well, it was fine. It was some really good stuff in there and really good stuff, but AWSWA some more and we have today some really cool stuff. Yeah. stuff. I have no idea why they were bringing out cnet’s that is one of the reasons why I do like judging San Francisco is that

they do get a lot but they don’t necessarily get the turd you know, they try to Yeah, you know, they Yeah, that stuff. And if it looks like if it’s there, it’s in a flight with like 15 other good things whereas like a DI it’s like you got turd after turd after turd one good thing or turd turd. And that’s not to insult Oh, no at all. It’s just it’s just a reality of it. And the market actually shows you that you know, people don’t

necessarily like, you know, fresh stuff from a distiller and that’s why someone like new riff is so fascinating. Yeah, because they’re hitting their ground like kicking ass. It’s so good. Big fan. Yeah. Well, there’s the growth of all the distilleries is much faster than the growth of experienced distillers.

Yeah, yeah. I think I think either

been a big part to new room. Yeah, yeah, I think getting the right consultants to help you to because there’s a lot of a lot of distillers, I think out there that, you know, there were brewers and we, we seem to see that a lot here in Cincinnati. They were brewers, it doesn’t mean they’re bad. distillers just means I think maybe brewing in distilling is just a little. Yeah, I mean, it’s a component. Yeah, it is. It’s like It’s like, I mean, got distillers taking over places by default. There’s an openness there in town that we gotta I gotta talk about about the person where the brand is I love the brand and the person but he’s been distilling for six months. They was doing it part time behind two other guys

And they left and now he’s the master distiller for this big brand with six months experience. So there’s some default distilling going on that. It’s tough. You gotta work on your feet. Actually Kenny’s a master distiller yeah

yeah and I went online took the certification I’ve got my printed out it’s above my desk now. Absolutely.

Skills right next to us microwave. Is it like I heated up via radiation

become a minister to become a distiller I should probably start that website

buying a star. Yeah, exactly. So one last question before we wrap this up because an old fashioned it’s just that we named him winter and spring.

To make this a double Yeah. Make it will make it a double Bible. Is there anything else you want to talk about what we

want to talk about like with those particular seasons that we didn’t hit on like

Some of your favorite cocktails because I a real Mint Julep yeah

it’s only the only if you haven’t met Churchill their garbage yes they have to make a million at a time have a good Mint Julep supreme mix. That’s how it makes have a good Mint Julep they’re actually really easy to do is really easy to make a good Mint Julep. It really is. It’s about not using the mix. It’s about using real sugar real MIT not bruising the mint. Oh my god, don’t bruise you’re doing it at home for a party making the MIT syrup and making a bowl of mental bacon he done I’ve served many hundreds of people I seen and be delicious ice Isn’t this the best part? Because if you are just crushing it yourself, it’s about getting your aggressions out before


Now it’s really important. So yeah, good Mint Julep i think is one of the best skills a bartender can have. So okay, so let’s go to lucky you brought up not not bruising the menu.

Are you talking about like not using the stems and that just the leaves and not pounding it right over the listeners an idea of what bruising the middle attacks? So yeah, just a tip. So you know, there’s veins, little veins in a mint leaf, right? You don’t want to break this don’t break. Can you just want to give it a slap? Get its essence out. And then can you do a give us an example of a slap in the microphone?

Yeah, but if you put it into it, I usually I make a simple syrup and even in the simple syrup, you don’t want to overcook it. You want to you know, make your simple syrup while the heat still on throw big handful of freshmen in there for like, well, it’s bright, bright green lesson like maybe three minutes, then take it out. That’s all you need. Take all of that men out in any way the most beautiful, simple, MIT simple syrup ever. And when you’re making a mint julep, you do not want to model them in any way you’re making a mojito to don’t freakin bottle the mint. You’re making me Mohit. Oh no, you don’t

I don’t do a model I don’t break open if you’re if you’re making a mint julep, all you need you need to model the sugar in the limes right metal sugar lines, then you throw the Minton then ice let the ice do the work do the ice I i understand where we differ a little bit. I give a little tap tap I found I find ways to do it. That’s when

the ball over the very top of a very tall building and it’s there’s some

there’s some people that say you don’t even make it into a mint julep. You just garnish it with the men tap you give a slap. There’s

some iterations around the glass and stuff and then it’s the big sprig and I was making Michalis at at Churchill Downs this year and the guy he was making it didn’t know how to make a set took over.

I won Best Mint Julep and lucky this year.

That was awesome. That was our roses hashtag

I was supposed to be a judge on that. I could.

Yeah. Remember the wall fallen? Yeah.

We read cork in Canberra or No, no.

And they had a landslide and like we were in this room where like half the wall had come in from the landslide and we were it was like February or something and it was like freezing and we’re sitting in there waiting for like the contestants to come in in this freezing room and the wall kept moving. It was really scary. Like grab the bourbon.

Lucky they ran out of time for me so they came to my bar and I got to make it bar forum.

Mint Julep spring cocktail. Sorry.

What’s the winter cocktail? Well, I love I think Manhattan’s and, and components in Manhattan. So you’re like, Saratoga is in your like here. Remember the mains and all of these different kind of like the

Like Manhattan esque Bourbons that use pretty much all alcohol I think are really important. I think we differ a little bit. I mean, just because I like iterations of Manhattan’s I just don’t go as classic. What was the thing that the main what was the main? Okay, yeah. If you want to explain, you got to remember the time there was like one of the best things on right about this in in bourbon plus is so good. Remember, the main is a cocktail that was created by this guy named Charles H. Baker. Right, the 1930s. And he actually created this in Cuba, of all places, but he’s rye whiskey. So Cuba 1930s going through like some political upgrade, the guy tried to put himself back in power, it’s also the the depression and keep us out doing so well. So he’s in this hotel with all these other journalists, and there’s always writing going on outside and he’s like, now I’m gonna make a cocktail because that’s what he did. So he put together rye, cherry herring, sweet vermouth, bitters and put it into a cocktail glass and he caught it. Remember them?

After because he felt like this is what how it had probably been when the Spanish American War happened and the USS Maine went down big Cuba. Remember the main How was Spain? Pretty much in a nutshell that is the rumor the main and it is scrumptious The only thing different about it is they added cherry herring to it.

Tell the story.

history lesson today to spot the only time I would have cherry herring. It’s I loved hearing hearing. Yeah, real Singapore Sling. That’s it somewhere that we haven’t talked about real Singapore Sling with cherry hearing bomb ever. This is a bourbon podcasts. I know. I can’t help it. There’s different cuts. And as you said, talking about cocktails.

We started

at some point where vodka and his bowl is blood.

There’s only one classic vodka drink that I really love. And I bet you would like it to Fred. What? No. It’s called the what’s

now the one where you mixed it to sex on

Beach now, you make he makes you mix. vodka and gin know that I see the best very

first really good but have you ever had a gypsy queen? So now you would love it. It’s actually really delicious It is. It’s actually a classic among classics. It was introduced around the turn of the century in New York at the Russian Tea Room. Okay, I mean, I know we’re going into by now all right now, here’s the thing about it is even a bourbon drinker would appreciate this is all it is is vodka, and, and Benedictine and his flesh bitters. It’s delicious. I do like Benedictine. You would really love this drink. It’s just lovely. It’s just gorgeous. I tell you what, if you made it for me, I would drink it. I will make you one. Yeah. Why don’t we have a bar here I’ve

got my purse to go Thank you. little miniature bottle.

I’ll give it the one I told you earlier.

The one the only reason I drink vodka anymore is for officer shooters. Yeah. And we were talking about these Wheatley like really? Here. Yeah, give them a plug. But you know, as we kind of wrap this up, I also want because our listeners and our fan base everybody’s a big fan of just old fashions. Yeah. So kind of give your way of making a proper old fashioned, I guess that doesn’t involve what muddling maraschino cherry so and try not to get an argument, you

know, it’s not about arguing, you know, we hear different things. I could be like you like that? Well, you’ll have bills

inspired me on a lot of things, and we’ve been events together we’ve done Yeah, what do you

know is one of the most fun things I’ve done. I hate competitions. So my old fashioned way before it so my old fashioned I’m very particular again, don’t like use simple syrup in a old fashioned unless I’m making a special kind of old fashion, because there’s what old fashioned sugar water bitter spirit. That’s

It’ll fashion you know and that’s a template you can use so many different ways sky’s the limit right? But I my true old fashion is I use a sugar cube douse with Angostura bitters if I happen to have those Woodford cherry bitters on hand, and I’ll use those because it’s my God, I love them for chocolate. So good. Anyway, but Angostura bitters, I use a vegetable peeler and take a zest of orange. And I model just the zest not the orange or not making orange juice, just the zest with the sugar and the bitters. And then I use old granddad brought in on the rocks. He’s, you know, yeah, it’s really good. So is there no cherry in your cherry? No cherry? No, am I not too far off, I take a mixing glass and add two ounces. I use old forester 132 signature but old granddad is another favorite quote in there. I take the vegetable peeler Gravis, you know, an orange peel, but I took a torch and I kind of heat up the outside of the peel and then I zest the peel

Through the flame, you know over top of the mixing glass, some Angostura bitters and then I do use simple syrup just for consistency and things. But it’s like they literally dribble. It’s not even a bar spoon it’s not even a quarter of an ounce it’s it’s a dribble of simple syrup. At ice I start for just a moment a couple revolutions because you don’t want to over diluted because I meant poured over ice that I pull out that orange peel with some tweezers note in there and then I put one of our brand new cherries that we make in house and throw that on top.

No modeling of the charity or anything just throw it on top or some little dessert. Oh fantastic. And so now we’re making a double I’ve got one more question that just kind of came to my head because you both talked about using hundred proof bourbon is is that the good middle road because you’ve got bourbon that’s like Booker’s at 125 and you’ve got the other ones that are around the you know the Basil’s that there at proof. Like, where do you is there is there a cocktail to be made on both ends or is like it

100 just a good, good medium. I like using 100 proof. I mean, I love drinking 100 over proof for my Bourbons pretty much and I like mixing with them because especially if you’re,

you know, you really want to, you know, taste that that spirit you know, but there are some cocktails were 80 and 90 proof work just perfectly in the balance of the drink. So, you know, I go both ways it’s not cocktails for me are typically the hundred proof is because I am trying to go spirit forward and oftentimes they find themselves in the shake and cocktails too, but

I don’t hardly ever stir a bourbon that’s under 100 proof. Those are more for

I definitely roses cocktail got many eyes at proof, but it makes a fantastic cocktail because you’re going for the flavors that compliment rather than the body of the bourbon. Awesome. Oh, good. I’m glad we rounded that out. So it was fantastic having you both on today. And before we sign off, I want to let each of you kind of give a plug about where people can

Find you Where can they know and match you online? Where to find your places and how to get in contact. So Molly, I’ll let you go and go first. You can find me at Japs and over the Rhine. And

I’m also a contributor to bourbon plus magazine.

And well you can find me on Facebook and Instagram. I don’t tweet. We have time for that. Ain’t nobody got time for tweeting

you can find me at riches proper interior in Covington, Kentucky right outside of Cincinnati at seventh and Madison.

By Me bridges proper Instagram, which is proper on Facebook. Just doing great cocktails and bourbon. That’s that’s easy enough. We love to hear that kind of good cocktail to this thread about you. Yeah, you know, and I wanted to say that. My favorite. When when I do order a cocktail, I get a knob Creek Manhattan. To me knob Creek is the best Manhattan

bourbon and it and I’ve tried it in many many, many different ones but it’s I feel like that particular product was like built for my palate as a man and it’s a good one. I’m a big fan of actually we talked about using rye with Manhattan’s earlier I’d like to do that and usually a bullet 95 is kind of where I like to go and sometimes I rediscovered knob Creek Bry recently kind of forgot about it for a while and then came back to it a hell of a rock Yeah, they don’t really market that at all. No, like they put it out there. knob Creek it’s that’s my cigar bourbon. I want to smoke a cigar like usually a knob Creek single barrels like further value for you buddy box for the single girls there’s and they’re rolling out some older barrels. It’s Yeah, it’s hard to get others. Well, we’re making this a tree

for hours. I think we’re gonna have to have around to here. I’d like that and will sink it. So thank you again for coming on the show today. It was a pleasure having both you here to talk about cocktails and bourbon.

Give mullets and everything else. I mean, I think I think our listeners are going to come away a lot more educated because at least for myself, I love going to a restaurant and ordering a cocktail. I hardly ever order a bourbon neat because we all kind of a lot of us own a lot of the Bourbons on the shelf anyway. And so when you go to get a cocktail, it’s more about getting an experience and trying something unique and something that’s new, rather than just kind of going old hat just drinking bourbon neat. So it was a pleasure knowing that and then also getting a good history lesson in the same exact time and you got to see some men get slapped.

So it was a pleasure. And if you like what you hear, make sure that you’re following bourbon pursuit on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. We tweet. I know Fred’s a big tweeter. He’s all over the he’s always he’s a tweet storm in the making right there. Now I’ve been fidgeting It’s been so long. About an hour since his last one to teach me how to twit I’m not really.

So make sure you’re following Fred. Also check out bourbon.

And if you’re if you’re interested in you know more about what bourbon pursuit has to offer, you actually have bourbon plus subscriptions as part as our Patreon following. So if you can go check out more how to support the [email protected] slash bourbon pursuit. So with that, thank you everybody for joining us, and we’ll talk to y’all next week. Cheers.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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