237 – Oversaturated Sourced Bourbon and Private Barrels on Bourbon Community Roundtable #40


This week’s Bourbon Community Roundtable touches on lots of good hot topics. We look at MGP’s stock as it continues it’s downward trend with our thoughts on how this will play out for them. Then we talk about sourcing in general and if consumers are getting oversaturated with the same bulk market products. Stickers are always a fun subject, but this week there was one released that got national media attention. Will distilleries crack down on stickers? Lastly, we congratulate Old Forester on it’s revamp of the barrel program and cap it off with our most annoying bourbon terms.

Show Notes:

  • This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks more about smoked grains.
  • Breaking Bourbon announces Stagg Jr. as their whiskey of the year. Let’s discuss.
  • What do you think about the MPG losses for the 3rd quarter in a row?
  • Is the bourbon market oversaturated with brands?
  • What happens when the aged whiskey runs out?
  • Let’s discuss the effect of stickers on bottles.
  • What do you think about the New Riff Pitino sticker?
  • Sticker predictions?
  • Brown-Forman comes out with a barrel proof single barrel program for Old Forester. What is taking everyone else so long?
  • What’s the most annoying term in bourbon?

Transcription:

0:00
Kenny didn’t did my over talking on the sticker thing. get in the way of getting the opportunity to talk about vodka.

0:11
I guess so,

0:13
son of a bitch. Yeah. Hey, I got it. I got it. I got to dial it back a little bit. Man, I really need to talk about vodka on this show. But how much I hate it. I’ve never done that before.

0:35
Maybe one it’s Episode 237 of bourbon pursuit. I’m kidding. And here’s some of the news. You know, we’ve been keeping up with the talks of the trade war going on. And however President Donald Trump and his French counterpart president Emmanuel Macron, have agreed to hold off on the escalating trade war. And this is now avoiding what would have been a massive tariff increase on French goods such as wine, cheese and handbags, Trump and threaten the new duties and retaliate.

1:00
For a tax slapped on revenue earned in France by American tech firms such as Facebook and Google, the two sides will hold off on potential tariffs until the end of the year, as French officials have said and negotiations over the digital tax will continue at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. A 25% tariff still remains intact and in place due to separate trade disputes related to Airbus numbers are starting to come in for visits to distilleries across Kentucky, and Sazerac, who is not a part of the Kentucky distillers Association has released their numbers earlier this week. The distillery ended 2019 having a record breaking 293,996 visitors during the calendar year. This is a 35% increase in visitation over 2018. And as you know, there is currently a $1.2 billion investment going into everything around Buffalo Trace, including producing more whiskey but also expanding the visitor center. The expanded Visitor Center will be utilized together

2:00
A bit more distillery archives. And as the expanded space will back up to the recently completed fermenter expansion, the visitor center will have a backdoor access to the whiskey making process allowing for new and updated to a routes. The expanded space will also supply another place for event locations for hosting evening parties. Now for this week’s podcast, this roundtable touches on a lot of good subjects, we look at the stock of MGP as it continues its downward trend, and with our thoughts on how this is going to play out for them. Then we talk about sourcing in general and of the consumers. You and I are getting oversaturated with some of the same products that we see on the bulk market, and stickers. It’s always a fun subject. However, this week, there was one that got released that got national media attention. And does that mean that distilleries are going to start cracking down on them? Who knows? We’ll find out and then we congratulate old forester on the revamp of their barrel program. While we cap it off with our most annoying bourbon terms. Are you interested in this

3:00
See what sort of barrel pics we have going on. Right now we are still set to select an old forester whistlepig to Buffalo Trace barrels to four roses barrels and a new roof barrel this year, or aiming to do somewhere around 20 barrels this year and you can get in part of the action as well. Not only just getting a chance to have a bottle from the barrel pick, but you could also be on this selection team. Go to patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit and you can learn more there. Alright, it’s that time once again to see what Joe over barrel bourbon has to say. And then you’ve got Fred minich with above the char

3:35
it’s Joe from barrell bourbon. We’re always trying to push the envelope of blending whiskey in America. Find out more at barrel bourbon com

3:43
I’m Fred minikin. This is above the charm. Last week in my above the char I talked about smoking the grains before distilling them and how that is changing the character and the flavor profiles of bourbon really all American whiskeys

4:00
And I asked a question in the barrel finishes, we bring up a stink as to whether or not those are really bourbon. I asked, should we start asking ourselves are the smoked grayned Bourbons, also bourbon. Now they technically meet all the qualifications but there was a time in American whiskey history in which they tried to dictate what types of grains were used and where they were coming from. So the question is, because smoking the grains changes the character so much it takes a big right or left hand turn on Kentucky bourbon, Should we open that up? And we got a really good email from Jason Lambert. He’s the lead distiller at came and spirits company in the Grand Cayman says he’s a big fan of the show. Thank you very much for that Jason. And he, he says, When you think of bourbon, you often think of this as tradition in history. But when it comes to smoking grains, I think

5:00
Industrial kilns were mainstream and most all malls were smoked to stop germination. In this respect, a smoke bourbon would be welcomed with open arms. So as long it is properly labeled, however, this would open a Pandora’s box to include grains like the smoke corn, you discussed about MB rolling. But again, I should

5:24
I think they should be accepted as long as it is very clearly labeled. Now, Jason brings up a great point. And I think that is always my main concern is that consumers are not deceived. And that’s what has happened in a lot of whiskey labeling is like somebody will follow it to a tee, and then someone else will take advantage of the equity that that one person has built and do something like dump a gallon of sherry in there and then call it it’s Sherry finished barrel. The Sherry finished blend or

6:00
Whatever. And you know, when it comes to the smoking of the grains, I just want to be, I just want to make sure that consumers are protected. And the fact is, is that people will do things that they can get away with. So as long as people are, you know, making note on their labels that they’re using smoke grains, I don’t think we have a problem. But the minute that someone comes out and is pumping mosquito smoke or peated Bourbons into the market without notifying the consumer, that’s what it is.

6:35
That’s when we have a problem. Because what will happen inevitably, someone will taste that product, and then not like it or like it, and they’ll expect that’s what bourbon is supposed to taste like. You have to remember that when we talk about consumers, we’re really talking about, you know, one or 2% of the consumers, people who are not necessarily engaged in whiskey at all. We’re definitely not talk about people in this podcast.

7:00
But when people are arguing for class action lawsuits that somebody was deceived or something, they find like a small amount of people to prove their case. And that’s what I’m talking about here. I imagine someone going to some some place like Walmart that’s where attracts everybody and they grab a bottle of what they think is bourbon, they go home and taste it and it tastes like smoke or tastes like pee or something that the tourism away from buying another product of bourbon because what they think of in their head is bourbon is that smoke flavor that they didn’t like, and so they go back to Crown Royal or vodka or gin or whatever it is never giving something like Evan Williams a shot even though Evan Williams doesn’t taste anything like that smoke product that they dislike. And they’re in is what why Jason has hit the nail on the head when he talks about it’s all about labeling, and trying not to deceive the customer. And as long as we have upfront labeling, I’m always going to be okay.

8:00
With just about anything as whether or not barrel finishes, or actually bourbon, now, that’s a debate for another time. But I can tell you 1955 things like four roses of today and Buffalo Trace, they were not even considered the way they are made today would not be considered bourbon in 1955. And that’s when the barrel entry proof was the legal maximum was 110. So, even though we have some rigid standards in American whiskey, it’s always evolving. What American whiskey looks like in 10 years. Who knows? Maybe mosquito smoke corn finished and Sherry barrels is the standard. I don’t know. But I do know that I’ll be here to taste it. And that’s this week’s above the chart. Hey, if you’d like to write me and tell me what you think about above the char, maybe I’ll read it on the next episode. shoot me an email or hit me up on Instagram.

9:00
Graham at Fred minich Until next week, cheers

9:06
Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon and tonight we are having bourbon Community Roundtable number 40 and it’s also the first verb Community Roundtable of 2020. So welcome back everybody. Glad to have everybody here right

9:22
here. So pretty much we got the whole crew here tonight. So Fred, Ryan, Brian, Nick and Blake as well. So how’s everybody doing? Doing well doing well Kenny start to the New Year.

9:35
Just fantastic.

9:39
So excited. And for anybody that’s not able to if you’re just if you’re in the car you’re just listening or something like that. Ryan has finally got a new background. He’s He’s finally stepped up and he’s got a whole new house renovations got bottles behind them now. I know. I’m like halfway through. You can maybe see if I get all the way. running our shells. I have another

10:00
One next to me. That’s empty. But uh, yeah, I’m only halfway there and I’m running out I should have went bigger like Kenny said, but I don’t have any more walls so

10:10
I think that’s one thing is as we start going down and when people ask they’re like, Hey, can you send pictures of like your your shelves or? Anybody have ideas and as soon as you have an idea for how big your shelves need to be, just triple it. Yeah, because always triple it because that’s exactly i mean even doubles not going to get there but so when you think you need shelves for your bourbon, just triple it, because that’s what’s gonna happen. I yeah, just liquidate. I’ve been like giving like somebody comes to my house and I’m like, Here, take this bottle bottle for you, bottle for you.

10:44
So I’ll go on over. I’ll give you a funny story. So this past Sunday, my wife kind of went on a cleaning spree and went down to the basement and y’all know my basement. I know many people have seen it on social media. I mean, it’s just littered with bottles and just crap everywhere. And she’s

11:00
Like, this has gotta go. I probably ended up dumping out probably like three bottles worth of whiskey of just like samples of like 100 ml ml samples of just stuff that like it’s, it’s stuff that’s all like from distilleries that wasn’t very good or under age and I’m just like, I’m never gonna drink this. I don’t know why I’m hanging on to it. But there’s a little piece of you that just dies every time you sit there just empty down the drain.

11:26
Yes, I did. Actually, I had a bunch of media sample bottles and I just dumped them into the canter. We’ll see what happens here. Infinity bottles. Yeah, exactly. already had one infinity ball that never touch. And then I like wow, be a great idea to create another one. So I don’t drink it and let it sit there but uh, yeah, it’s, it’s good problem to have. Yeah, yeah, it is. Alright, so let’s go ahead and go around the horn real quick. So Blake, we’ll start with you. Just go ahead and do the usual. Yeah, I’m Blake from bourbon er calm. Bo you are Bo you are Bo, nr? It’s been a

12:00
wow you know I almost forgot how to spell the name so glad to be back these are a lot of fun to do so that you can check me out at all social medias Instagram Twitter, Facebook as well as CEO box comm that’s s ELBACH s I’m Nick from breaking bourbon, breaking bourbon com check us out

12:20
on social media all at breaking bourbon. And so I’m not going to spell it for you like Blake Blake i don’t know i don’t i don’t want to screw it up and embarrass myself on live here. But yeah, you guys should know it by now. Breaking bourbon again. Glad to be here guys. Good Brian. Yeah, thanks for having me back. Happy to be for the first one of the of the New Year Brian with sip and corn. You can find me on Twitter Facebook and Instagram at sip and corn si p p n co CEO or MC there I go next can’t even spell your own name anymore. And and also see me at bourbon justice.com. Let’s start getting into some of the

13:00
The topics for tonight and so one of the one I kind of look at is how breaking kind of made stag Junior famous because it was one of these things that’s like stag Jr. has been around, it’s been around forever and all of a sudden, they come out and say it was their whiskey of the year and 2019 batch 12 and never at least correct me if I’m wrong Never before has Sazerac ever put out a press release about a new release of stag Jr. and now all of a sudden people are just going crazy for it it’s just I don’t even know if the initial release of stag Jr. Got a official press release

13:35
batch number 13 yeah even know they had badges

13:40
not getting

13:42
Okay, can I jump in so I was going to share this story earlier but so I was in South Carolina this weekend when we hit a few stores just see what they had three different no it was one bar and two different stores. They’re like well, you know, we did just get the George t stag Jr. I don’t know if you know this, but it was just named whiskey of the year.

14:00
I’m like, No, no, don’t trust those guys.

14:05
It was gone off the shelves and the guy was like, yeah, you know, one of the employees grabbed it here because it was just named whiskey of the year. So, like, dang it breaking strikes again.

14:17
Y’all have a meeting with Jim Murray, you know?

14:22
I wish somehow it’s like, it’s like a catch 22 because, like, in a way, it kind of it kind of hurts us to to do something like that, because it’s generally not insanely difficult to get here. I mean, it’s not on the shelves all the time. But it shows up. I mean, if you’re in liquor stores as much as we are, you’re going to see it, you know, it’s going to be out, you’re going to have a chance to get it, you know, and so when when you do stuff like that, you know, you always think about the impact of, you know, are people going to lose their minds about it, but the flip side of that is, is, you know, it’s kind of nice to have something that’s just kind of a regular release, you know, they’re not all going to be great. I don’t think you know, there’s going to be a

15:00
Elijah Craig barrel proof that’s fantastic there’s going to be a larceny you know barrel proof that’s that’s fantastic you know that kind of thing you know so it’s that idea that kind of these regular releases that we get some really good once in a while we don’t have to necessarily hunt you know the crazy stuff that everyone’s already going to go nuts for no matter how good it is or not you know that you might just stumble upon you know really good batch or you know really good run a single barrels or something like that. So that’s what’s kind of exciting about that. But yeah, the catch 22 is it probably is going to be a little difficult to find for a little while at least although you know, probably taper off and be able to find it like you did before. If you know the know the liquor store, guys and you’re getting your area. I think it’ll still show up, you know, couple months from now. So one of the benefits of never deleting an email is that I have been able to trace every single Buffalo Trace, press release, and I found the original one with the original George t stag Jr. Or the stag Junior bourbon press release July 25 2000.

16:00
13 and I did not find any other follow up releases. So this

16:08
this is the first based on my inbox, which is a very well kept never deleted inventory of all Buffalo Trace press releases. And I remember the first either the first one or the first couple of those were just hotter than all hell. I mean, they were just unveiled.

16:28
Yeah, yeah, terrible. Yeah, terrible one of the one of my lowest rated Bourbons and everyone was super excited for it when it came out. And everyone thought I was going to be the, you know, the George t stag just a little younger, really, it’s pretty much should be the same thing. Otherwise just maybe not quite as developed. But that one was pretty bad. And that one kind of turned us off from it for a little while. Of course, I have three bottles of that batch one. But you know, so it’s been a little while we’ve had it here and there. You know, this one kind of popped up and Eric was the one who got it first and he was just going on and on about how great it was.

17:00
We had it and we’re like well it’s yeah we’re going to start buying this again now you know so just yeah I think there’s going to be hits and misses they’re not all going to be they’re not all gonna be home runs but this one was pretty good and from what I hear batch 13 is pretty good too and from a lot of comments people I don’t think people didn’t realize there were batches you know, if you’re not a die hard bourbon enthusiasts, I don’t think you’re necessarily noticing that the proof is different. And it doesn’t say batch anywhere so you know, I think Buffalo Trace maybe realize they could educate people a little bit better. You know, kind of talking about that there are actually different batches of this. You know, like for example, having held us with their you know, how they’re identifying their batches now. We’re knows maybe we’ll switch to doing something like that. Maybe they’re just going to try to get people on their website and do press releases from now on you know, be interesting to see what happens you know, everybody actually not opposed to like the the the announcement of a new release like this, if anything, it helps. It helps in a lot of ways kind of like Chronicle when these things are coming out. It gives you you little nuggets of information.

18:00
Because let’s face it

18:02
We are at the liberty of what information they want to divulge to us we’re very fortunate that someone like new riff or heaven Hill will tell you answer any question that you want. But Buffalo Trace, doesn’t they, they don’t tell you everything and so like to get any kind of like real like actionable information from some of those distilleries that don’t give you information is always a plus. You know, it’s the funny thing is this one question that came in and said how many people in the roundtable do the news earlier and guilty of insider trading? You know, for me, I don’t even know how this was on your radar because stuff like you know stag Jr. Huge t single barrels are I mean, even even a lot of I mean, thankfully, heaven Hill sends us a lot of the samples for every release of the Elijah Craig barrel proof so we have an opportunity to taste it but a lot of times like a new stag, Jr. thing, just it’s just not on the radar for me to go and search out among the liquor stores so well, they’re gone anyway, they’re not on the shelves here. It’s like

19:00
Global’s a different scenario Yeah, they get kind of compiled in with the you know Weller releases well or 12 where people have to camp out for it so I’m like stag jr No thanks not camping

19:11
or people camping out for stag Jr. He had they just do like they just they budget in

19:18
the raffles in the lotteries in the release. Yeah yeah it’s part of the long line scenario maybe not the camping out but at least a two hour wait sort of scenario that’s bourbon for you. Mm hmm. All right, let’s go ahead. Let’s move on to something fun. Well, maybe not fun, fun to talk about. You know, this is something that was an article that came out of Barron’s calm on Friday and talked about MGP is now posting its third loss in a row, sorry, third quarter loss in a row. On Friday, the news came out that the stock had actually lost 20% of its value. It’s currently I just checked it before we started here around $38 a share. It’s high was back in around June of 2018, where it peaked around 19

20:00
$5 and it said at least within the article that it made a bet on aging whiskey, and that was related to blame, and really was a failed bet at the end the day. So I want to kind of look at the finance guys over here, because you all know what this means about, you know, trying to hit numbers, not posting or not meeting your, your expectations, your results. So what is this to you kind of say about the current market of maybe craft distillers that maybe don’t need to source as much whiskey anymore?

20:31
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s actually pretty telling, you know, if you dig in a little bit, they dig into like the, you know, the price to earnings ratio, all this other stuff in really what it comes down to is, I don’t think MGP is getting the prices for their age whiskies that they wanted to, they thought that they could just kind of they were controlling the market, they could demand whatever price they wanted. And, you know, but you also have a lot of these other distilleries you’ve got Bardstown.

21:00
bourbon popping up you’ve got some other you know castle and key who’s doing a lot of contract distilling, as well as just some other places around the country we’ve got a lot of decal bourbon that popping on to the market. So

21:11
I think they were just thinking they were in the driver’s seat in our kind of getting proved that they weren’t.

21:18
You know what that means for a stock forecast? I don’t know that may be a little tough, but

21:24
ultimately, I think they’re going to have to bring the prices down some they’re still extremely high demand for MGP whiskey. But as I think that MGP probably thought that they would be able to release their own black brains with a little little bit of a better result and they haven’t really done that, you know, what the remis and then well, they had the

21:46
the one that Oh, shoot with the old master distillers name that they released under his name, met Greg.

21:52
Greg Mets select but then you know that after he left, I assume they didn’t care that on so I think between the fact that they haven’t been able to really

22:00
thrown brands with much success. And then there’s other stuff popping on the market where you know brands and smaller craft distillers they’re looking to source. They have more options now. So I think that’s the big thing. So let’s analyze what MGP is MGP for years has been a supplier to people who were seeking craft spirits or distilled food, basically distill, distill the alcohol use for food. And in 2016, they hired Gus Griffin as their CEO Gus. Gus comes from Brown Forman. He’s not from that kind of brought home and certainly had its like it played in the source market. Don’t get me wrong, but not to this extent. And that facility in Lawrenceburg, Indiana, had been used as a blending agent for years and Canadian whiskey and American blends. It was never a place to do it’s to have its own whiskey until Pernod Ricard sold it to ldi or Angostura

23:00
We’re up, and they started selling stuff out into the wholesale market. They saw so much success with this. Unfortunately ldi could not, could not survive, so they had to sell you MGP MGP saw so much success with the source market that they said, Hey, why don’t we have all this great whiskey and hey, you taste the honeybell from NGP. And you tell me it’s not great. It is fantastic whiskey. And they’re like, why don’t we do our own brands. So they bring in this guy from Brown Forman Absolutely. Perfect position ready to go. Here’s the problem. The company’s infrastructure had always been built around

23:41
the wholesale market or the trade industry or other distillers and helping other other brands. They had not successfully done their own brand. They didn’t have the sales infrastructure. They didn’t have the marketing teams in place. They had some here and there but they did not build brands. And so in 2016, they shifted

24:00
gears and they started let letting go contracts and they started saying, hey, you’re gonna have to find another source for your whiskey because we’re cutting back. And here we are, we’re basically seeing the results of a fantastic distillery not being supported by, you know, something that we always talk about that we hate in marketing and sales or apps. So that without that infrastructure there, you can see the results. And I know the stock market is not like real life, but it’s an indication of what what happens.

24:38
Yeah, I mean, I also think when you look at this as a as a distillery going into this, you want to be able to buy whiskey and and have something that you can kind of buy and then sell almost overnight like that. That’s kind of the goal a lot of these people went with. And now when even I mean, Ryan and I, we’ve been down this path we’ve talked to MGP like the most that they really sell

25:00
to people like us is like four year old product of that they have the 36%. Right? If you’re buying a lot of 30, or buying a lot of four year old product, that means you’re banking on betting your whole business on aging NGP stock. And so that doesn’t necessarily play into the long term category of a lot of distillers where they say like, okay, we’re going to get this to get us over this hump, until we can actually start selling our own whiskey. And so, most people unless you’re, unless you’re trying to build a business where it’s NGP all day, every day for the rest of eternity, then it’s gonna be hard for I think, to keep to keep selling some of these younger stocks. I think that’s right. I also think frankly, Indiana has something to do with it. I mean, they they caught some bad press with Templeton and everyone referring to it as Oh, it’s just

25:48
a whiskey made in a factory in Indiana, and they can’t call it Kentucky bourbon. And everyone knows when Indiana’s on the on the back. That’s where they got it from and it’s just a brand trying to

26:00
Make make it go until they can sell their own. And in the meantime, you’ve got brands stocking up on that can call themselves Kentucky bourbon and you’ve got a JW locally in particular, with all kinds of warehouses that are full of bourbon. And they’ll have that cachet that MGP just won’t and a half wonder if it’s the market figuring that out. Also, you got to think about to Ozi Tyler has a lot of stuff on the market. Bardstown, bourbon, which

26:30
Blake mentioned earlier barsa Berbick and he’s got a lot of stuff out there. I mean, the market is almost in about a one or two years if you’re starting a brand. It’s a buyers market, you know, because a lot of these people are going to be you know, desk selling have also heard rumors as that anything I can confirm it. So there’s been some really strong Major blueblood distillers that are starting to say, Well, you know what, maybe we sell some of those two year old age doc that we have in tanks. So you’re starting to see some Kentucky probably

27:00
open back up on the market. Well, you know, the old Barton stuff that’s 12 and, you know, 17 years old remains there for half the price as you will know, Kenny. Yeah. Well, it is Kenny was alluding to or talking about, you know, us being in the source market. It’s hard to I think MGP is actually built a name for themselves especially for the rye whiskey and the older bourbon I think. I think if you carry the rye whiskey, a lot of people will give you a benefit of the doubt because it’s damn good rye whiskey, probably the best out there but the problem is is their pricing it’s you can pay $1,000 more for aged, you know, product from Tennessee or or Barton’s, and

27:43
then a four, you know, a four year old NGP and it’s like, what you know, and when you taste it, it’s just it’s hard to, you know, invest that kind of money for that young of a product. And like Kenny said, You’re banking on you know, aging, that stock and whatnot. So

28:00
I don’t know, I think they’re, they’re getting squeezed barsen by recovery, like other said, and castle and key and

28:07
yeah, I think that’s just all part of it. And, you know, they, it’s adapted. So they’ll they’ll figure it out, I’m sure, when they shifted their business plan, they left the market open and people took advantage of it, the only way that they can correct this, you know, to get themselves back in place, is to flex their muscle. And I would really, I would really say that they should spin off their brands, and they should go back to servicing, you know, the craft market because they were so good at that and their infrastructure is set for it. And the market accepted it, you know, we can all say what we want about those class action lawsuits and everything, but no one was ever really bitching about the whiskey. And, and and that’s that’s telling you something

28:50
that’s true. When you’re going into you’re really putting the marketing in a lot of other people’s hands in you don’t have to bank everything on your own strategy. You know, you’re going to get some great

29:00
ideas from from some really inspired people by doing it that way. And I think that’s what’s built up their name to this point, because there’s certainly an enthusiast group that’s, you know, follow these brands that are, you know, probably built from enthusiasts themselves that have sourced MGP To get started, you know, done really well with it. And I think that’s built such a strong name for them, you know, in that group, and then just by and large, as a lot of people out there that I don’t think they care if it’s MGP or not, they just care if they feel somewhat connected to the brand and they liked the whiskey enough in That’s it, and it’s just about getting distribution to the right places. So I think that makes a lot of sense, Fred.

29:39
You know, I mean, maybe this is, you know, certainly could be a bit of a glut here. Everyone’s producing like crazy, you know, we’re seeing whiskey come to market a lot younger, you know, then it was he came and dropped off a lot of regular everyday products we see on the limited release stuff, of course, you know, but is it to the point now, where it’s just gotten that much harder to compete, and people may be overproduced

30:00
A little bit, you know, compared to what the what the projections were, Nick, you bring up a very interesting point. You know, we always talk about the glut but The what? The thing that’s different now is that there’s this whole lifestyle and tourism impact that American whiskey has jack daniels is enjoying it and so like if you’re a fan of it, you can go to Jim Beam, you go to Maker’s Mark what a Buffalo Trace and have the experience of your life. No one’s going no one’s going to Indiana. So you know that’s, that’s a that’s a component there and I’ll say this about MGP I hope that they stick with it because I think that’s a good company. They just, you know, we all make business mistakes. I think this was a business mistake but I do not want to see them sell I think they have the passion for it. I do not want to see this get in the hands of printer card or Dr. Joe or someone like that, who’s just going to turn this into a churn and burn place without any attention, you know, to the whiskey in American American whiskey hands and I don’t want to see it be sent off to for blending purposes again, the world got

31:00
taste that whiskey and the world said we like that whiskey from Lawrenceburg, Indiana.

31:07
And the people have spoken here here.

31:11
So while we’re also on the source whiskey path right here, you know, as we start looking at the scene of more and more Bourbons coming to the market, there’s only a limited supply of sources that things are coming from. And this is one that, you know, we all kind of talked about before on the show, are we starting to see that the bourbon market is now being oversaturated with brands? Because, and don’t get me wrong, we’re probably problem too. Right? We’re part of the problem too. Now, however, like it’s it is becoming to the point where there is a lot of private label stuff out there.

31:45
I just saw somebody released one called Blue Ribbon bourbon, which is a revitalization of a label that was a 12 year old Kentucky bourbon about a week or so ago. And I think we’re going to end up seeing more and more of these in the next probably few

32:00
months, few years, something like that. So do we see the over saturation of the market starting to happen? Well, I was I was wrong about this about four or five years ago. And so I guess I’m not, I’m not going to be reporting on the demise or the bubble being pop just yet. I mean, I thought four years ago that I’d be buying someone’s still out of bankruptcy and I’d be the able to have my own little distillery on the first side hospital. Sure, didn’t happen, obviously. And if we can get past tariff issues, and if we can get past trade issues, there’s so much capacity overseas, it’ll it’ll soak all this up, and we won’t notice a blip here, despite all of this production coming out. So we just have to think it’s going to keep pushing. And I guess I would say, you know, from a, from a production standpoint, there’s there’s a lot of it, you know, where it’s going to get consumed, it’s going to grow almost just from

33:00
A pure, like, different brand standpoint, pure number of producers out there. You know, I think there’s probably plenty of them out there that do not necessarily have a passionate person behind them. You know, there’s a lot of money in it right now. You know, there’s plenty that do have passionate, excited people behind them, I think we’re going to see, you know, a percentage of those succeed, you know, but they’re fighting for shelf space on a limited number of, you know, a limited number of retailers. You know, they’ve got to go through the distribution system. You know, there’s, there’s ways around it, of course, to some extent, but I think the reality is, is I think if you flood with flood with just too many different brands, there’s just too much noise. And I think we’re going to see a challenge for, you know, just an overflow of these to succeed if they don’t have the driving force, the passionate people behind them, you know, kind of that gumption to, you know, to stick with it. I don’t know, I don’t think it’s necessarily a quick money play, you know, per se, the same way. It may have been, you know, five, seven years.

34:00
years ago, at this point, I think the competition’s a lot tougher. And so you got to pull a little bit more into it. You gotta have something special, you got to bring a destination into the mix, you’ve got to you just have to do more. You’re not just, you know, the bottle something, put it out there and have nothing behind it and succeed. Yeah, one thing, I think with the source, you know, I mean, obviously, like Kenny said, there’s a few sources that people get it with the refreshing thing about the source, age market, it’s comes with an age statement, like nothing else out there is really coming with age statements. And you know, that’s one niche they can hang their hat on. It’s like, okay, we can give you a 11 1214 year old, you know, whiskey and you can’t hide age. You can’t there’s just, you know, five, six, it’s fine. But when you get 11 1214 there’s something special unique you get with those types of Bourbons and still, and we’re whiskey geeks. So we noticed these brands, we know where they come from, but the general public, they have no idea. You know, they’re like, oh, any idea about this brand? No, it’s 12 years old, you know?

35:00
They’ve been producing forever. Right? They opened up yesterday. Yeah. And so it’s,

35:06
you know, as us we probably think, yes. Like, oh, how ridiculous. Can there be another 12 year old baartman brand out there. But the general public, I think, doesn’t see that it is see that age number 12 years, and they get excited about it. I guess the other question that kind of comes with this is, we all kind of know what happens when you buy a bunch of stuff. It ends up running out right, it’ll go dry. So what do you all kind of see is like some of these brands that are hanging their hat on putting that big number 12 of Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey as their brand. When we know here in maybe a year, maybe six months, maybe it’s two years? I’m not too sure. But this will run out?

35:49
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s tough to say because I’m, I’m kind of with Brian, where, you know, probably four or five years ago, I thought and by 2020. We’ll see a glut nobody’s gonna care about

36:00
This stuff anymore and I’m going to pick up, you know,

36:03
maybe not Pappy, but at least like well, or 12 or something again, but the demand is increased even faster than anyone expected. So

36:12
I think people will stick with brands, even if age statements are dropped. I mean, look at Elijah Craig. Granted, that’s a massive company behind it, but they’ve gone through it Look at you know, Jim Beam eight year, the Black Label that they’ve gone through it and seems to be no issues. So, you know, I think a lot of these things are just blips on the radar radar, and it’s a marketing thing that they have to figure out. Even when, you know, you hang your hat on age statement, you have to drop that age statement later. That ultimately what I think it comes down to is, is the is the whiskey good and, you know, it’s easy to get stuck on a age statement. If it’s good people drink it, people will talk about it and you know, it’ll continue to grow so I don’t I don’t see any signs of slowing down even with it.

37:00
There’s going to be a huge flooding of the markets in the next five to six years of Bourbons from New distilleries have been, you know, aging for a while, as well as other major distilleries that have just increased production over the last six to seven years.

37:15
As long as bourbon is cool, people keep buying it.

37:20
You keep it cool, Fred.

37:23
I’ve got that.

37:25
Pretty sure. So, you know, as we start looking at you know, Bourbons come on the scene. There’s one thing that we always also see that that happens in this world of bourbon and that’s, that’s stickers.

37:39
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38:00
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38:50
So, you know, as we start looking at you know, Bourbons come on the scene. There’s one thing that we always also see that that happens in this world of bourbon and that’s that sticker

39:00
And there’s one that the recording of today is Monday and there’s one that just kind of get real big real fast and this was a play you know, one thing that I always loved about new riff is somebody that’s something about riffs something and so riff pitino of play on Rick Pitino is one sticker that kind of got big on bourbon today. And what this does is it depicts a a kind of like a to face of Rick Pitino you got UK on one side you have Elad another, they have UK holding up a trophy and they’ve got a bunch of UFL players throwing dollars at strippers on the other side. And this got so big that it got picked up by Kentucky Sports Radio which is a very large syndicate here in the state that then got picked up by barstool sports. And in the barstool sports article, it actually talked about how it was coming from the distillery, right it didn’t say it was a pretty

40:00
private group I didn’t say it was a pic it like it said new riff. I’m sure they love that. Yeah, I mean, I guess I guess you know any publicity is good publicity but like At what point or I don’t know maybe how about practicing a little journalism I Tommy call me old school but hey how about we actually call the company that there’s no money in it with it you could call somebody for that. Yeah, yeah I mean all of this I feel like new riff is is an enormous victim right now and it just it drives me crazy because this has this has been happening I’ve been covering this business for you know 1415 years in all it’s never happened this egregiously but like a brand really got damaged today it there’s no question about it that someone saw that article in is going to have a bad opinion or saw the tweet is going to have a bad opinion about new riff for the rest of their life and they will not have taken the time to follow up to see you know what the real story was, but new riff got

41:00
Damage today because somebody made a sticker and put it on the bottle and made national national trending news, whatever you want to call it, but you know they’re hurt from this or are they hurt? I mean they sure they’re they’re hurt I mean that’s

41:20
but they’re getting press on this folks who had never heard of this small distillery in Northern Kentucky now know about new riff and they’re going to hear a lot of response to me about Oh, new riff is actually you know, get get the get the new riff. I mean, this is a fantastic single barrel. Well, I don’t think anyone actually most people, you know, the way the world goes with this stuff, it’s it’s going to be the one thing that someone clicks on and then they’re going to see a cat and they’re going to go to something else. So I that I don’t think there’s any kind of real value in any kind of trending topic. I mean, there are multiple studies of somebody who comes up with something you know, clever on Twitter.

42:00
They don’t their Twitter followers don’t grow, you know, they get 30,000 retweets and what have you and their Twitter followers grow by 20 or something silly like that. And, and, and the fact is, is that within the Kentucky Community, you know, they’re already kind of an outlier because they’re in Northern Kentucky. They’re not in Lexington, or they’re not unlovable, and they’re not in Bardstown. So they’re an outlier as it is. And, you know, this sort of thing, puts them in kind of like a weird position in the state. And it has made state news. It’s been tweeted by Matt Jones. And so everyone sees it, and all anyone had to do was pick up the phone and call the distillery. And then there’s the whole thing could have been like, hey, this barrel group is doing this using this. They just pick up a sticker. Now it’s free speech, right. And the distilleries can’t dictate to anybody what they can do to the bottle after it’s been purchased the same way that Nike can’t dictate to you what you do with a pair of shoes that you pick up, you know from shoe locker or

43:00
Whatever. I mean, when I was a kid, I used to spray paint shoes. And that was probably stupid at the time, but I did it. No Shoe Company was coming after us to, you know that we couldn’t spray paint our shoes. And that’s really what it is here is that you have to practice you know, practice some, some, you know, some common sense of say like, Hey, is this a good idea? Does this pass the smell test? And I think this, this whole thing has

43:28
it could be the one sticker that, you know, puts the whole

43:33
you know, takes the fun out of all of this. I mean, honestly, a lot of people don’t like the stickers. I love them. I love looking at everybody’s stickers. I like getting on social media. And seeing people’s post about it. I thought it was great. And this one even if

43:49
I mean I it was too far, it was too far.

43:55
actually makes it cool with younger people and that’s growing.

44:00
It looks like because most bourbon brands are like, old man kind of like real old school kind of thinking. I don’t know, the barstool sports, you know, they have a lot of millennial. Most of you know followers and that’s where Bourbons growing and that’s the future of bourbon. And I think they’ll probably think it’s cool. I know it probably drives me crazy Fred that that’s what they love, they love like, I like tweeting and all this stuff and I and I, and I watch barstool sports. I listened to the pizza, the guys pizza reviews are great. And I just, you know, this is just one where I don’t know it’s just I would have to agree with Fred where I thought this one kind of went over the line a little bit on on a sticker but but the press was fantastic. You know, it’s you can’t pay for that kind of that kind of viral effect. But was it wasn’t Ken Lewis, the one who on the on bourbon pursuit said he didn’t like the stickers and is like, you know, I understand people are free to do whatever they want, but we put a lot of time and effort into those

45:00
bottles and

45:02
we prefer that then they stay the way they are you’re right it was killing us on this podcast and said that I think he’s the only the only you know owner I can really think of who’s talked about that now granted new riff gets way more just because of the the funniness of the the name way more stickers and craziness than other ones but overall you know it definitely hit an audience but i mean i don’t know i can’t condone putting strippers on your bourbon bottle that’s just a little far for me. So here’s here’s another side okay, so I like again that that audience that’s getting touched is not going to get converted for new roof. It’s just not they’re not going to take the time to go seek out a bottle if they do they’re going to do it in Jersey where the bottles not available and find a bottle go to seal box calm

45:57
should a quick link in the show notes.

46:00
Nice I like it. This is the whole setup, you know, not what this stuff but this is this is a this is a trend that that social media has brought that a lot of people do not appreciate and that’s the social responsibility aspect of, of, of alcohol, their actual laws about what can be put on the bottle and their actual laws about what the distillers can promote. Yeah, putting a stripper on the bottle is is is within many violations now obviously new rifton do that. But I have seen multiple bourbon groups have a have their child hold the bottle and you know quickly those things often get taken down. But people don’t practice they don’t they don’t look at. They don’t look at the bottle as like some kind of

46:55
regulated you know, piece of real estate and

47:00
You know in these kinds of things are going to end up hurting the the distilleries, the community, the hobby, all of it. Because we’re all the the bourbon world’s already under, you know, every Attorney General in the country is already looking at, you know, the secondary markets as like some kind of like easy press release for them to take down and arrest arrest Joe Schmo in a parking lot in Pennsylvania. They’re like, pound their chests and say like, hey, look at us, we’re taking down illegal illegal drinking and legal selling. And so, you know, we don’t need this kind of activity happening. Because all it does is it puts it puts a bigger Bullseye on the entire industry. And it just frustrates the shit out of me that people don’t get that when it comes to like having their kids next alcohol when it comes to the stickers when it comes to anything and the fact is, at any given moment, like Facebook or whoever could just snap

48:00
It’s all gone, it’ll pop up in something else, but it’ll be gone in that particular medium. And that is where you know that the stick that particular sticker is in that same kind of categories, right there.

48:13
Yeah, I mean, we’ve talked about stickers plenty of times on the show before and, you know, whether it’s you know, you want to commemorate something or whether it’s a an opportunity for you to pay homage to somebody I know we’ve seen people that have like had Freddie on the bottle before I know there’s people are afraid to on the sticker. You know, there’s a lot of fun things that get played with it. This just happened to be one that blew up rather quickly. And only because I think it

48:39
It had a little sensitive subject around to it, but you know, it’s a it’s it’s Kentucky and it’s basketball in the day. So maybe that’s just why it started really supporting it. You know, you shouldn’t ever went to frickin level.

48:55
There’s just there’s no restrictions on the rival

49:00
Read between Kentucky and u of L so that that that’s part of it. And that’s, that’s why it’s on. That’s why Matt Jones is is tweeting it. And that’s why it gets on barstool sports. But I think overall there’s there’s obviously the risks, Fred, that you point out. I think overall, it’ll end up being fine for new riff. I think what it’s going to do though is it’s going to call the attention to all the distilleries about what goes on these, these stickers for the private groups, because a lot of them use trademark images. I mean, there’s plenty with with Marvel Comics, images that are trademark images. There’s, there’s there’s just free use of anything out there that are protected marks, and the distilleries are going to have to have some responsibility for that. I absolutely disagree. I disagree with you on that because once that once it is bottled, it is going to the distributor and it’s being sold to a retailer. So the the

50:00
The responsibility on this is going to be on the retailer. If they are putting that sticker on there at the distillery, there’s some liability there, I would assume. Yes. Yeah, it’s wherever they go place. Yeah, that’s where a lot of them come on. I mean, I’ve know some that go on on post sale, but a lot of them go on at the at the distillery, they’ll give them the sticker and it goes on there, that that’s going to be restricted. Now once it gets into into the group’s hands and gets whatever stickers on it, that can still be trademark infringement, but you’re gonna have to go after the group for it, which will be next to impossible. So if it’s if it’s Disney trying to protect a Marvel mark, they’re going to go to the distillery and say you need an agreement with whoever does private selections that they will not be using any infringing marks. I wonder what Rick Pitino thought when he saw

50:55
the he says

50:58
he’s like, I just can’t get away from this trip again.

51:00
thing, you know, you know, he’s he’s probably, you know, he hasn’t did he Sue anyone with all the coverage that he got? I don’t think you know, probably now i don’t think i don’t think he will I think he’s just trying to get another job and to be honest with you, if the Oklahoma State job pops up, I pray to God that he goes there because we could we could use a winning season anyway, that this whole thing is

51:26
it it just kind of like plays into a whole nother

51:31
you know, conversation to be had about, you know, what is,

51:37
you know, what, what is the standard of, I guess, being cordial, you know, we’ve lost in, in an overall society, we just, we just put pictures up with people and, and, and have a good laugh at it. And yet we have 12 year olds trying to kill themselves on a daily basis, because they’re getting made fun of online. It’s like

52:00
At some point in our society, we’re going to have to take some,

52:04
some responsibility for what we’re posting online. And this is this is a part of all that it’s a greater conversation. But

52:13
you know,

52:15
it’s sad, it’s sad that it’s accepted. And people just go on with it and have a good laugh. But the fact is, you know what, my grandpa wasn’t doing this you know, when when they were trying to you know, create a cut, you know, basically rebuild this country after World two. And you know, and here we are, and it’s just kind of like, this is what we’re This is what we do on a daily basis. That’s it

52:42
your mood and change the mood? Yeah, go look a little like a good device. The subject I feel like the you know, the the router game will fall every problem.

52:52
All right, let’s move on. I think we’re ready.

52:57
I’m ready. That went deep. So you know, as we are

53:00
Talk about private barrels and you know, private pics and stuff like that. You know, I think there’s one and I think, actually, Blake before we can go on to that I think you had a had a sticker prediction for 2020 as well. Did you want to kind of really? Yeah, yeah, it kind of, to piggyback on that a little bit, I think there’s going to be a brand or distillery that comes out and says, you know, they can’t control it. But they will be very boisterous, kind of how the Van Winkle have been about the secondary about, you know, no stickers on their bottles. Like we said, you know, if the bottle comes untouched, gets in the hands of a customer. You know, my six year old can color on it, I can throw a sticker on it, it doesn’t matter. But a lot of times when these things are getting advertised, I think they could stop it and you know, somebody put it in the chat. That’s why steel box puts the sticker just in the box and doesn’t put it on there. But I think there’s going to be somebody else who comes out and says, You know what, we don’t like that. And we’d prefer that you know?

54:00
People not do this to our bottles and in there a little more outspoken about it. So I think that’s coming especially after today. You think that’s what it’s new riff Blake or do you think somebody Yeah, I mean they already kind of said it. I think it’s new riff I mean you think about the the major ones are getting stickers. New riff will it a lot of Buffalo Trace pics you know Buffalo Trace Weller’s, all that kind of thing. Will it seems to be okay with it? I don’t know. I’ve never seen them have an issue. I’ve seen them do some distillery releases where they have stickers. But yeah, I think it’ll be new riff, you know, especially after this backlash, that that does say something.

54:42
You know, some people kind of get the fun of it and others, you know, to his point that he made on the podcast it was we put a lot of work and design effort into this bottle. We prefer that it stays the way it is. So, you know, I think it’ll be interesting to see what they’re able to get away with it.

55:00
Cuz, you know, they can’t, they can’t dictate free speech? Well, I’m very much in opposition of, of poor taste, I also support free speech. And, you know, if when someone gets that bottle, and they can put whatever they want on it, and I think the only thing could probably dictate his say, you can’t, we will not be putting this label on the bottle. And if we catch you doing it, we’re not going to resell to your group. I think that’s about the extent of it. And honestly, I think that would be the biggest return of all they said, Look, you know, we’re just not going to let you do another pic. If this is how the bottles are going to be treated. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that legally, you know, they’re allowed to choose which groups they allow to buy barrels.

55:49
So I don’t know it take a little bit of the fun out of it. I mean, I know we had some fun with our rollers trail pick, so it does add some fun, but overall, I think it’s gonna

56:00
If it continues, you know, they’ll have to at least acknowledge the fact that they’re not associating with with a lot of these stickers. I mean, it we can all, you know, prevent all this by just, you know, practicing common sense, right.

56:18
That’s way too much to ask these.

56:22
Remember we started what what is bourbon? bourbon is drama. Yeah. So that’s what it’s all about. Yes, it is, always has been, by the way. So as we as we continue this theme of talking about single barrel selections and stuff like that, there’s there’s one that’s sort of leading the pack and kind of made a big splash this year already. I know it’s rolling in January. But the biggest news was that brown Forman is now coming out with a barrel proof and 100 proof option for their single barrel program of old forester and will be retiring their 90 proof version. This all is going to come into effect around the May timeframe that kind of begs

57:00
Question. What’s taking everything else so long to get on board with this? Gosh, I applaud them for listening. I mean, yeah, absolutely. I’m Foreman’s like just they are like nailing it on all aspects the past like two, three years, they just been doing great releases at great prices like putting out ever since Jackie’s joined. I mean, it’s just they’ve been nailing it out of the park and they’re listening to fans. They’re doing everything like I commend them so much like it’s it’s incredible. I’ve done an old forester pick at barrel strength it’s absolutely incredible. You know, and it’s I’m so excited for this unfortunately our pic will be at 90 proof because it’s not before

57:39
before May So, but Gosh, way to go brown Forman like talk about company and listens to people and then listen to their fans like I applaud that. Absolutely applaud them. I mean that’s on those barrel pics there have been some of the best straight out of the barrel bourbon, I’ve have had hands down and we’ve been

58:00
crying for it for five years, and maybe it takes that long but we finally have so I’m happy. Yeah, I put this in a post today about I’ve never been that huge of a brown form and fan for over the years. But there Honestly, I think they did better than any other distiller I can think of in 2019 really last couple years with their whiskey row or releases, you know, the the hundred proof raw or the straight rye that they released. That’s like 23 bucks a bottle. And now this with the barrel picks, what does every single person say? Whenever they go to do the barrel pics, what will they let’s do it a barrel proof. And the answer’s no, you got to water it down to 90 you gotta water You know, one of seven. There’s something hard to do. We got to do a TTB filing. Yeah, yeah. And I don’t think they just continue. I thought the old forester birthday bourbon was fantastic this year. So yeah, I mean, kind of hats off to them. I think they’re

59:00
They’re crushing it with the whiskey crowd right now or the, you know, the enthusiast crowd at least. So, I want to get in on their barrel program now. Like, who do I need to call on that one, but now I’m excited to see what else comes out of there because we know they have a lot of good barrels sitting so it should be a lot of good barrels to kind of, so a little breaking golf. Sorry.

59:23
Breaking News. Yeah. Okay. Let the man talk. Okay, kind of sorry, Fred, kind of to that point.

59:31
Blake, you know, I think you know, talking about the enthusiast crowd, you know, you gotta wonder if if the Steelers are looking at it as a real small portion of the community that does really want that is going to be impacted by that and you know, look at it as from a cost benefit that maybe it’s not there, you know, but that kind of listening to the enthusiasts and even if it you know, the single barrels and barrel proof only do get into a small number a hands, you gotta wonder if they’re looking at kind of that spiral effect of, you know, if that kind of interesting

1:00:00
goes down from there to just people’s association with the brand. So kind of talking to everybody, you know, the enthusiasts, I think we’re relatively speaking a pretty small group, you know, when you look at what really sells and where the numbers really get posted, but we’re a pretty vocal group too, I think and it’s great that they’re listening and making their products better. And yeah, I mean, across the board when you have those pics and you’re there and you’re tasting all the barrel, and it’s so good then they water it down and it’s it’s not the same It’s a shame to know that it’s going to be watered down and they’re basically going to ruin what’s otherwise a fantastic bourbon.

1:00:36
Well, and so I wouldn’t go to room. Sorry.

1:00:40
I want to hear what you say. But I’ve some of your and watered down some of those old forester private selections have been fantastic. Sorry. I just mean, I just mean in general, you know, yeah, I’m with zero proof. It’s fantastic water down. It’s just not anything near where it was. Yeah, you know, it’s really those it actually some tastes better with

1:01:00
Water than they do it barrel proof, you know and so it’s kind of funny how that goes to. All right, go Fred. All I was going to say is because of everything that she has done and is continuing to do, and her

1:01:14
her effort to find herself we’re putting Jackie’s I can on the cover. bourbon plus. All right, fantastic. She if you guys can beat me out,

1:01:32
pulled away. We should probably

1:01:34
more community vote next time.

1:01:38
Jackie’s gonna win every day of the week. Yeah. The photography on her is amazing, but this story is about her. We know about the whiskey side and that’s there but on the personal side, she’s she fought like hell. And I got to tell you all when I tell you that every single great thing that is happening on the old forester line.

1:02:00
is in large part because of Jackie’s I can. But also you know who she would say is her partner in crime Campbell Brown, the president Campbell deserves a lot of credit for taking a brand that was kind of like forgotten in the world and giving it the love and attention that it’s deserved. And that’s a good brown Forman on it sharp dude, he’s done. They’ve done amazing things since he joined. So that’s a great point. Yep. And I guess kind of like last question that we do, as we kind of wrap this up is, you know, as we see, brown Forman come out with this barrel proof single offering, and I know that the eyes are on one company, now that everybody kind of looks at and says like, okay, we love We love to taste your stuff, a barrel proof, we want to see a barrel proof offering. I mean, is it do we actually see this as a change of the bourbon consumer market, where more people are actually opting to actually want to have barrel proof expressions, rather than saying like, Okay, well, I’ll just

1:03:00
Take this 94 proof counterpart because that’s all you’re going to give me. Haven’t we always been there? We have. But I mean, now you see the them actually starting to adjust to maybe some market reactions. Yeah, well, the single girls are like, really for whiskey geeks. It’s not for the general populace. So, I mean, but the general population, they even think 94 proof is fucking hot as hell. They’re like, you know, they even like 86 they’re like, Oh my gosh, it’s so hot. You know, but uh,

1:03:31
I think so. Yeah.

1:03:35
Yeah, I’m Ryan, I come across this people. I wonder their way. Yeah. Yeah.

1:03:40
What has happened is they finally have listened to the data and listen to the people who are out in the market saying that new consumers and women and people who are wanting to, you know, to drink in a sophisticated fashion, want higher proof and I believe it you

1:04:00
No, Peggy no Stevens has played a big, big role when she handed over the bourbon women’s research that women preferred basically Booker’s as the as their drink of choice and the like every day that you can find in the in the market. And so when they started seeing that data, they’re like, Oh, well, we all need to kind of, you know, create, you know, something else, you know, that’s a little bit more meeting that demand. That timeline of that research also was when Booker’s increase their pricing By the way, but

1:04:36
but it’s just nice to see that I, you know, for years, we have said that they, they, that the distillers don’t listen, they do listen, they just create a new brand and jack up the price at a higher proof, you know, so that’s, that’s what they’re doing. So this is a little bit of like, be very careful with what you wish for, because suddenly you’re going to get larceny barrel

1:05:00
Proof and it’s not that good. Or you’re going to get here you’re going to get something like four year old Jim Beam, a cash drink, and it’s like you’re, you’re drinking out of the gasoline hose or something. So we can drink doesn’t mean it’s good. It means it’s high in proof, and you can bring it down to how you want it. And that’s really what it comes down to. But the general populace anytime you like, drink with somebody that’s not been environment where they where they want, they went smooth, they went to be smooth, it’s that they went smooth, and you know, that’s the word and so I hate that word, but I do it. It’s the general population. They don’t want it to burn. They want it, you know, easy drinking, they want that. So they’ll I think they’ll still that’ll be their main focus, but it’s nice for us geeks that there are putting those you know what the hot when I when I taste test with consumers, you know, around the country, you know, the hot one of the hottest Bourbons that they find

1:05:57
and this is this is odd but

1:06:00
They Jim Beam white label is the hot you know they every single time they taste oh my gosh this is this is not as smooth as that one and they’ll point at Baker’s you know, so I’ll do like a fly wide

1:06:14
and in one’s obviously like 27 proof points higher and smoothness is not necessarily proof and that that’s the problem we lack we lack an education across the board smooth just kind of gets thrown out there. You get these liquor distributor reps you don’t know you know, two shifts from Sunday and they’re just trying to meet their quotas and so everyone’s pushing you know bottle cases and you get then you get a big giant stack of baseball Hayden in a store and you have somebody want to play you know, paper football through it.

1:06:49
That’s an Instagram post by the way.

1:06:52
But what it what is smooth, there is no definition for smooth and so that’s the result. Higher proof gaming good. It can mean shit.

1:07:00
Who knows? All right, well, no, go ahead. And one one comment. I have been loving the comments tonight. I mean, I’ve been cracking up on something you’ve been putting on there, Kenny. And these are great. And for the life of me, I’ve tried to log in and I think I got kicked off of the broadcast when I tried to login so I could actually respond to some of them but my bad on that but great comments everyone tonight. Yeah, absolutely. And so while we kind of finish that up that that kind of makes me want to do one more question. What’s the most annoying term you find in bourbon is smooth is up there.

1:07:36
Juice juice has to break at least my top three crotch shot. Yeah.

1:07:44
I when I think when I hear brown water, I just I think a toilet water. It’s not a feeling. I don’t think I think bourbon should be as far away from brown water as possible. Two very different things. Tater

1:07:57
Oh, who said Tater? I said Tater.

1:08:00
Why don’t you like Tanner? Just gets annoying after a while. It was cool for like a year. I feel like everyone’s just it’s like, oh, if there’s someone new to bourbon, oh, it’s a tear. It’s like okay like,

1:08:12
not every thing that you dislike about bourbon is tator activity. So

1:08:19
one thing I still love it sheltered. I’ll

1:08:24
do like that shelter it is good.

1:08:27
sticker shelter.

1:08:30
I love it. My least favorite term in whiskey This is going to shock everybody. Boss likely is Angel share. Angel share is a dreamt up word or term or phrase in a marketing room that essentially had been, you know, something that had been tracked, you know, since the 1500s for tax purposes, and that’s the evaporation from from the barrel, but you ledge or

1:09:00
shortages or actually in the 1800s. They call the angel share outages. And you know, those are not sexy terms. So I hate the term Angel share, but I still use it because people understand it. I think I hate fermentation tank, because every distillery thinks they’re fermentation special and it’s not. And they spend so much time on and they use a Cypress

1:09:26
dang from 100 years ago.

1:09:31
These things are getting cleaned and everything else but also I’ll throw out adding a bunch of Z’s to anything.

1:09:39
That’s, you know, the Pappy, the Bourbons. Yeah, drop that one as well.

1:09:47
Good deal. I love it and on something like that. So, Nick sounds like marzipan.

1:09:53
You know what? Listen, it happens every note and I that I picked up and and the only reason why anybody knows about

1:10:00
Because on this podcast before I joined, Ryan’s sitting across screens, like, what is marzipan? I’m looking at him straight in the eye and I’m like, he’s serious.

1:10:12
When you let a redneck host, but that was, that was funny. I had no idea until that moment that that was something that people kind of like clung to. But yeah, it’s funny like if you go through like my tasting notes, there’s actually not that many that I’ve noted marzipan.

1:10:32
Enough, I guess someone needs to do a study. I don’t think I know if I’ve ever had marzipan or at least has been a long time. Or somebody like you, Fred that saved every review you’ve ever done with the you know, like the stag juniors. You did and they’re going to go back and find him.

1:10:48
Yes, they probably will figure out what was that first time you use marzipan? Yep. nail down the date. Alright, that was fun, guys, awesome roundtable tonight. It was it was a pleasure to kind of go and you know, we hit a lot

1:11:00
A lot of good topics tonight from everything from stag, Jr to MGP and then source whiskey to stickers and then even more more single barrel selection. So as we kind of round this one out I want to give each one of you opportunity to say where people can go and find more about you and read your books and your articles and buy your Bourbons and everything like that. So Brian, I’ll let you go ahead and go first. Yeah appreciate it. Great time night you can find me at all the all the social media sipping corn and bourbon justice calm Have a great night everybody. Blake once you go next. Yeah, so I’m Blake from bourbon or you can also find me at seal box calm we do have fun announcement coming later this week. We did a round table pick that will be releasing to everyone most likely Friday. So be on the lookout for that. But once again, guys, thanks for having me. It’s been a lot of fun. And it’s it’s good to be back in 2020 and I’m Nick from breaking bourbon breaking bourbon. com. Find us on social media.

1:12:00
At breaking bourbon. Thank you guys for having me tonight, despite some of the mic issues. Hopefully we got that worked out Kenny. But yeah, thanks again and look forward to a lot of these into 2020. I’m sure we’ll have a lot of exciting things going on this year. And we’ll be right back again talking about how great a year was. It’s gonna feel like it was yesterday. So thanks, guys. Absolutely. Cheers to that and make sure you follow Fred MiniK on all his social channels follow bourbon pursuit everywhere as well and proceeds also on tik tok. Now you go find us there so Tick Tock numbers.

1:12:34
15 year olds are there.

1:12:37
Hey, we’re trying to figure out how we reach new audiences.

1:12:42
That was just Kinney doing dance moves. Like I wasn’t sure if this was affiliated. I mean, me and Fred are totally independent of this

1:12:52
claimer about pursuit series we need to blame but we are not involved in this endeavor.

1:13:00
him at a little dance going on. Yeah, like we need we all need to get out of this now. Yeah, but in your defense you did set at where you have to be 21 to follow you on Tick Tock So, Thompson, Fred always waiting for the legal issues. There you go.

1:13:15
Alright, well cheers, everybody. Thank you. Once again, if you want to help support this podcast, you want to actually watch this live be a part of it as well. patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit. We appreciate all the support from all of our Patreon followers out there and supporters. It’s a big help to this and keeping this continue to grow. And if you can also leave us review rate this podcast.com slash bourbon. Go ahead do there and you can leave a review on Spotify, iTunes or pod chaser. So with that, cheers, y’all and we will see you all next week. Cheers. Cheers. Good night, everybody.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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