217 – Pernod Acquires Jefferson’s, Festivals, the Artificial Tongue, and EU Tariffs on Bourbon Community Roundtable #36

Welcome to Bourbon Heritage Month where it’s full of awesome festivals like Bourbon and Beyond. We dive into the show talking about Pernod’s intent to acquire Castle Brands which Jefferson’s is a major portfolio player and if $223 million was a good deal. We comment on PBR’s newest whiskey which is aged for a grand total of 5 seconds. Next is looking at the artificial tongue and what this could mean to the future of the industry. We wrap it up examining EU tariffs and it’s impact 1 year later on the whiskey market.

Show Notes:

Transcription:

0:00
I love bourbon, but I’m not ready to restart my career in be a distiller. I have a bachelor’s degree and I want to continue to use those skills in the whiskey industry. So check this out. The University of Louisville now has an online distilled spirits business certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry like finance, marketing and operations. This is perfect for anyone looking for more professional development. And if you ever want to get your MBA, their certificate credits transfer into Ul’s new online MBA program. Learn more about this online program at business.louisville.ecu slash online spirits

0:38
so I’m just waiting for the movie where artificial tongues go rogue and one of them decides is going to go and replace everybody’s whiskey with like rapid each whiskey because it’s got the perfect profile and there’s just insanity and chaos. You know

1:08
This is Episode 217 of bourbon pursuit. I’m one of your host Kenny. And as usual, a little bit of news to go through. So larceny from heaven Hill has launched a new app. It’s an augmented reality app called unlock the Rick house. The app was inspired by the history of john II Fitzgerald. He was a treasury agent back in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and was one of the only people that was legally allowed to carry the keys to the barrel storage Rick houses with a discerning palate for fine bourbon john Fitzgerald often uses Rick house keys to gain access to some of the finest bourbon barrels for himself. And those barrels from which he chose to help himself were often referred to as the Fitzgerald barrels around the distillery. The infamous active larceny led to the larceny brand and has now inspired the newest augmented reality app. So Once downloaded, you can explore the Rick houses by tapping on each one to search for the prize winning

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Fitzgerald barrel, and from September 1 through December 31. Each tap of the Rick house gains one entry into the grand prize of $10,000. Daily prizes will also be awarded and include everything from a mini barrel shot glass and larceny magnets all the way up until a larceny guitar or an LED sign. So you can get unlock the Rick house available now on the Apple Store and Google Play. On Tuesday this week, I had the pleasure of joining four roses master distiller Brett Elliot, to a special media preview of the 2019 limited edition small batch, were able to ask him anything in taste through all the individual lots that comprised of this batch. And here’s some of the details. The 2019 limited edition small batch will have a breakdown of four different bourbon runs. There is an 11 year old ESV that accounts for 26 27% of the blend. A 15 year old GSB at 40% of them blend a 15 year old ESK with 25% and a

2:59
21 year old BSB at 8% on the blind, and we got to go through each one of these and kind of rate them all and kind of figure out how they all lead into creating their own blend and the 21 year OBSV had the best knows it was super okie but the finish lacks some depth. And there was I know there’s a lot of OESK lovers out there, but this one had a pretty strong bite to it honestly wasn’t my favorite. However, the 15 year OESV was the real star of the show. This had depth and complexity and just kept going at all the right components into it. But come to find out. This is the same version of OESV that was sold at the gift shop this past year for Father’s Day. So there’s a few lucky people out there sitting on some really good bourbon right now. And the final proof of this will be 112.6 with around 13,440 bottles to be released in the US in around 3002 the rest of the world with an MSRP of $139 and 99 cents.

4:00
During this time with Brent, we also discussed the barrels and if we would ever see a single barrel limited edition ever again. Well, the unfortunate news is that he said it’s likely to never happen again. With the explosive growth of bourbon, it’s almost impossible to find a run of barrels that were all distilled at one time that would be able to satisfy this type of demand. Instead, these runs will be saved for future small batches for years to come. He said they have plenty of high AH stock. So this is great to hear for enthusiasts like us. And hope you’re out there enjoying these whiskey quickies that we’re releasing. As we get into the fall we’re going to be bringing new reviews of all the newest releases including next week’s as we review the new four roses small batch Limited Edition. All right now on to the podcast. On this Roundtable. We talk about bourbon festival season as we just wrapped up one, but we’re heading into bourbon and beyond right around the corner. And if you haven’t yet, go get your tickets. We’d love to see you there. Drink some good bourbon and listen to some good tunes. But after that, we dive into

5:00
To the acquisition business was the 230 $3 million deal for Pernod Ricard to acquire castle brands which Jeffers is a part of. Was that a good deal? Well, we had a lot of folks that were commenting in our chat section and talking about the EPA or the earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. It’s a measure of a company’s operating performance. One comment we received was from Craig Kessler, he’s a Chief Investment Officer as well as an executive bourbon Stewart. So he talked about per node selling wild turkey at 12 times its EPA, while brown Forman was selling at 10 x. So per node got an above market value during the time of the value of other competitors out there in the market. As for promotes re entry to the market, castle was trading at a price sales ratio of one x and per node paid about to exit the company. So brown Forman is currently trading at eight x. So per node is paying 75% less than brown Forman on a price per sales basis. So from this production

6:00
It looks like four nodes sold above market for wild turkey and bought castle below. So we’ll see about more of that into the podcast that after that we also dive into PBR is new whiskey, the artificial tongue and if you tariff data that’s now been published is still going to continue to wreak havoc on new exports. All right, now let’s get on to it. Let’s hear a word from Joe over a barrel bourbon, and then you’ve got Fred Minnick with above the char. I’m Joe Beatrice, founder of barrell craft spirits. I know I talk a lot about blending here. But we also have a national single barrel program asked you a local retailer or bourbon club about selecting your own private barrel.

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I’m Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. In 2013. I started a series at the Kentucky Derby Museum called the legend series. It was a great opportunity for me to sit down with the legends of the industry and ask them questions about their careers and taste their whiskeys. I’ve talked to great people.

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Julian Van Winkle, Edwin Foote, Harlan Wheatley, Chris Morris, Bill Samuels, Jimmy Russell, Jimmy Rutledge, and many, many, many more. It’s been one of the most important events of my career. And now as I go into building the eighth season of The Legend series for the Kentucky Derby Museum, I just look back on it, and all. It’s also where I made my first connection with the fellas here at bourbon pursuit. You may have heard this story where Ryan showed up and forgot to turn on the microphone. We still razz him about that. But it really was a great, great moment. I think, not just for me or the Kentucky Derby Museum. But for all of bourbon. The Legends Series was really one of the first high level high education events that allowed people to get really connected to a master distiller or a CEO and learn about what makes them

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Tick. And I’m very glad to see that today we know everybody’s mash bill. We know people’s business procedures. And you have companies like heaven Hill who are creating diagrams for social media about airflow in a warehouse. So much has changed in eight years and the people who are most to be credited with this, are you, you the consumer have more power today than ever before. And let me tell you, the whiskey distillers pay attention a lot more to what you think, than they do. The USA Today or the New York Times, you are the most powerful person in the all the equation of American whiskey. They follow what you say on social media. They follow what you listen to what you read, and they want to know your opinion, constantly. So join me in the further pursuit of knowledge and let’s

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asked people to open up and tell us more about their distilleries. Some people may think it’s unfathomable to know what’s going behind the scenes when they’re making a price increase, or what they’re thinking when they’re changing their barrel entry proof. But eight years ago, heaven Hill didn’t disclose their mash bills. Now, they freely tell you every single grain that goes into their whiskies, so things can change. And that’s this week’s above the char. Hey, make sure you’re following me on Twitter and Instagram. So you can come to next year’s Kentucky Derby Legends Series. You can find me at Fred Minnick again at Fred Minnick. Cheers.

9:45
Welcome, everybody. This is the 36 recording of the bourbon Community Roundtable. This is where we talk about what’s happening in bourbon bourbon culture bourbon news. We’ve got a lot of topics to cover, but you know, this is also the beginning and how we’re kicking off

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bourbon heritage month so everybody welcome to bourbon heritage month it’s kind of like our Super Bowl if we will right we’re finally here doing that. But you know not only this bourbon Heritage Month starting to kick off but one of the biggest things is this is also turning into festival season. You know we just wrapped up bourbon on the banks. There’s one called Kentucky’s edge that’ll be coming up and first week October however, Fred Super Bowl here is here and in two weeks so Fred you getting getting mighty pumped for bourbon and beyond? Yeah, bourbon and beyond is right around the corner. I’ve got two other festivals right before that one but bourbon and beyond is my baby. I work on a year round. We’ve been working so hard on it, obviously we got the Foo Fighters ZZ Top.

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Alison Krauss, Robert Plant, Zac Brown band we got all these incredible bands but we also have

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you know, grand Melia from top chef and we have a lot of lot of cool panels here. So you all are on the panels. Nick Jordan’s there on behalf of breaking bourbon. But I’m very proud of

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The curation of the panels this year, and it’s just an incredible, incredible lineup of of education and cocktail. Yeah, I mean, do you want to kind of give people a little bit of a teaser on what some of these panels are so they can go out and yeah, so well one year of moderating Kenny is like what is a master distiller and that’s something that we in our community we talked about all the time like what is a master distiller? I mean right now technically Brian who’s just a lawyer could be a master distiller without even going any kind of like training for it. We’re I’m moderating a panel about the history of slavery and American whiskey. This is the very first time that anybody in our industry has approached this and I want people to realize that you know, this is something that

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you know, it we, we kind of like avoided a lot but you have people like fun Weaver

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and you know, who’s bringing

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to the forefront and making sure people want to talk you know, make sure people talk about it because it is something important that is a part of the American whiskey heritage. And I don’t think we should just like gloss over it with and so that that’s, that’s a big seminar we’ve also got one called bourbon disruptors. I’m excited about Brian’s panel that he’s doing. It’s called whiskey dark past, you know, there’s been a lot of murders, there’s been a lot of bootlegging. All kinds of shenanigans have been associated with with American whiskey. And, and so you have some some deep ones. And then we have some like real basic like high about how to make a high ball and how to make a man hat and an old fashion. We have a lot of stuff like that as well. So licenses, as well as the hardcore ones. Yeah, and I think at least all of us, we’re super excited to actually be there be a part of it beyond the panels. And, you know, while we’re doing that, let’s go ahead and introduce all of our guests that are here or sorry, our typical roundtable member

13:00
Is that are here today. So let’s start off with somebody who might not be able to be here for that much longer because he’s getting ready to start batten down the hatches as as the hurricane starts making his way so Blake from Florida checking in How are you, buddy? Doing well, How are y’all?

13:18
We’re trying to sneak sneak in a little bit. Yeah, it’s been quite the week we you know, I’m kind of a little bit of a procrastinator on the on the storm side, but this one looks like we could get a little bit so yeah, no school for the next two days at least.

13:36
Well, good deal. Well, make sure you you stay safe out there. You know, we’re all we’re all making sure that you know, everything is everything’s good for you, as well as all the other flirty and bourbon residents that are down there. So hopefully everybody is staying safe and heat and all the warnings of evacuating if you actually need to evacuate. That is true. Yeah, you know, but the streak continues. I just kind of throw that out there. The streak continues.

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Introduction.

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Absolutely this qualifies. It sure does. Yep. Yep. So Blake, if you could go back 10 to family please do please go for it, man. Thanks for thanks for chiming in here.

14:12
Yeah, I’m good for a few minutes. arena question Where were we? Not yet we’re just still we just started going through the the table just going around the horn so well.

14:23
Yeah. Well, let’s take a break. So Brian, you go ahead and take next. Yeah, thanks, Fred. And again, this is Brian with sip and corn. You can find me on Twitter and Facebook sipping corn Instagram to sip and corn and online at bourbon justice calm and sip and corn calm and just to echo Fred’s comments.

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Probably no one is is is as excited as he is. But I’m I might be second place got rained out last year for my bourbon workshop. So I’m really excited about doing it this this year. And Fred Thanks for including me. Yeah.

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And Nick, let’s go ahead break

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bourbon. Let’s hear it. All right, thanks, Kenny. I’ve Nick from breaking bourbon breaking bourbon com. Check us out on social media at breaking bourbon. And yeah, unfortunately, I will not be able to make bourbon and beyond this year, but Jordan will be there. I will say I am pretty disappointed. It was a pretty fantastic festival last year even with the day the rain out the second day. And you know, I think anybody who’s gonna be making it out there probably won’t be disappointed. So I’m sure Fred you’re probably going nuts now still getting ready for this thing but yeah, it’s a pretty fantastic bourbon festival seems to seems like it’s only getting better year after year. Wow. Thanks, guys. I gotta tell you, you know, it means a lot to me hearing you all say that because, you know, getting rained out. It was like it was like a gut punch. And it was just so it was really devastating because we had to cancel the other festival which is the Hard Rock Festival louder than life the next weekend. So all three days were canceled.

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So we’re really hoping and praying that we don’t we have great weather and we’re at a weird a better location that can handle the rain so like it’s at the fairgrounds it’s like right across from the actual Expo Center building and it’s like that flat plane and it’s a much more it’s not as beautiful as champions park with all the trees but it’s something that you know is if if this thing floods the whole city’s underwater

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there’s gonna be a new meters thick that’s going to be on the side of the bridges the show the the great flooded 20 2019 if that’s what it is. Knock on wood. Yeah, let’s we’re not gonna have that it’s gonna be remember the first year it was hotter than hell out. The second year was just torrential downpour. Third year it’s got to be just clear skies. It’s what it has to get it perfect. Yep. Alright, so let’s jump into it. So the first topic of conversation is kind of a big one. You know, we’ve had days all our

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on the show before good friend of the show from Jeffersons, and it was announced last week that Pernod Ricard is going to acquire castle brands which Jefferson’s a part of that portfolio for 223 million. So it’s good to see that porno is still still on the hot streak of buying a lot of stuff. You know, I was just looking at Castle brands. His website, of course, like Jefferson’s is the one that kind of screams out to a lot of us. But they’ve got they’ve got an Irish cream and an Irish vodka. They’ve got Gosling’s rum, they’ve got Aaron whiskey, which I had never really come around before. But again, it’s a it’s a bigger portfolio but it’s it’s pretty good to see this sort of thing you know, we’ve been not really not accustomed to seeing a lot of these. These brands start getting acquired. Now porno is actually kind of on a buying streak. It seems a lot recently.

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You all kind of see. This is a trend that’s going to continue to happen like do you think these more smaller brands are going to continue to keep getting

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swallowed up by a lot of these big ones.

18:03
One thing that I noticed about this and I know, I know what they’re paying for, obviously 223 million sounds like a lot of money. But for these larger companies, it’s really, to me that’s a that’s a low amount for a brand like Jefferson’s, which really is a workhorse. I mean, that that’s a good selling brand that, you know, that alone could have probably sold, you know, you know, five years ago when you had high West sell for 170 $5 million. You know, Jefferson’s was 10 times the brand of high YS at that point. So I think and I know what I know what rabbit holes sold, but I can’t really say and I felt like that was a low amount as well. And so I feel like they’re getting these these these brands that might be in debt and they may not have as much like

18:56
you know, may not they I don’t know what

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How porno is doing this, but that’s not a lot of money for for castle brands. I just don’t I just don’t think there was anyone else looking to buy them. And so, right now you have the big companies and I don’t know if they’re out there looking to buy up, you know, brands unless it’s like white cloth at the moment. You know, the like laws the hot one. So I guess that you know I come from the I always say that where I come from the tech side and so seeing things in the, you know, a couple hundred million dollars of acquisitions aren’t, you know, it doesn’t really I don’t really bat an eye at it anymore. So you said that 223 millions just really not a lot.

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And you think that it also could be

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are there really only like a just a tiny handful of big players in this game that actually have the capital to acquire and if they already have something that’s in their portfolio, do they need to continue to keep acquiring? Yeah, let’s look at the brands that the big. The big portfolio is proud for

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pronounce Ricard Diaz. Do you throw Proxima in there? BM Suntory obviously

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Karen which has four roses would you know throw them in there and you know there might be a couple others that could really move the needle but you have to look at like what are the who has what it says rack Africa says RX a big player obviously.

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And in 2009 porno basically got out of the American whiskey game when they when they spun off

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you know Barton and you know, wild turkey and so you had like this incredible you know, they got rid of these these great brands and

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and, and now they’re trying to get back into the game after it was too late and pornos got a great Irish Whiskey portfolio. So Irish Whiskey is the only you know, whiskey that’s really hotter than bourbon and

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It makes sense for them to to try and get some jargon juggernauts but you know they’ve got smooth Ambler rabbit hole now and Jefferson I think they got rabbit hole really because of the facilities and rabbit holes facilities have incredible potential for expansion they fit right into the like the tourism model and Jefferson’s is a hot hot brand smooth Ambler two is got you know they’re they’ve penetrated a lot of really good markets so they made some interesting moves and I think they did them at you know whoever negotiated their deals I think probably did a very good job for them. Yeah, you know Nick or Brian Do you kind of see this as is Fred said it is this PR know kind of like crawling back into the market a little bit. You know if you know if you got rid of wild turkey at the wrong time because you thought it was a you know, basically a bad stock and you sold when the you sold out when is low and you know you bought it when is high like it they tried to like flip the script for themselves here. Well

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I think they they definitely trying to do that. But they’re they’re filling their roster with D league players instead of what they lost. And I think their problem is going to be capacity. I mean, how can they increase production of any of those without huge distilleries to be able to turn this out? I see that is their issue. I mean, they they can get some from rabbit hole and they can get some from smooth Ambler. But that’s a ways off.

22:28
Jefferson’s is still just bottling in Crestwood. Right? I mean, they don’t have a whole lot of capacity of their own. They’re still sourcing. So where’s it going to come from? So I see it is problematic there, they’re buying the league players, and they can’t, they’re not going to be able to increase production. And I think that to kind of piggyback on the sourcing, and that’s, you know, probably the comments that were, at least that I saw, you know, here in there, with, of course, the focus then Jefferson’s in the in the bourbon world.

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With respect to this acquisition, you know that’s the question thing about high West with Ambler there, they’ve got distilleries, they’ve got the that kind of capability, you know with Jefferson’s for example, it really is the brand that’s bought the distribution you know, the labels that that kind of thing. So kind of to Brian’s point it’s that you know, it’s that want to get back in the game want to get in in the game. I think there’s still a lot of growth potential in general, but it’s what is that you know, what are you going to do with that so now they’ve got two brands now they’ve got a pull out from you know, pull out from behind them probably invest quite a bit more Jefferson’s to like they go from a company that didn’t necessarily didn’t necessarily have the ability to walk into a company like brown Forman and and strike a deal for 5000 barrels of stock. I’m not saying that’s going to happen now if you’re in our carbon now printer card. I mean, trees owners got muscle like NASA castle brand was is like

24:00
You know, that was like,

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you know, a triple A baseball team, you know, in comparison to our car, who would be the Boston Red Sox or the Yankees, you know? So the buying power that they have to be on the source market. I mean, it just went up. And because they can, they can strike deals that he could never dream of before when they start sourcing from wild turkey that or MGP, which, you know, they they own the facilities after, after Seager. I’m sad to shutter all their stuff.

24:35
They got the facility in Lawrenceburg, Indiana, and DIZO. got, you know, Crown Royal and they’re like, you know, who got the better end of the deal on that because they can never make Pernod Ricard can never make that Lawrenceburg, Indiana distillery work, and they sold it to LDI. And that, you know, I became kind of like the source capital but so that would be ironic if they end up sourcing from wild turkey.

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GP.

25:02
And I guess another question that kind of throw at you all about this is do we see, this is going to be a lot tougher game going into this, you know, we had Trey on the on the podcast before I last year and we talked to him he said like, Is it getting harder now with sourcing, like our people kind of trend in your territory or you are in had all these relationships for and now you’ve got people that are on your turf barrel prices are going up. How can you maintain, you know, with not actually having a distillery that can pump significant volume? You know, is this was this a good buy for per node like it? It’s That’s a tough question. I think. I think Brian kind of alluded to that and I wouldn’t say that they’re, you know, deep play or anything like that. I I still am a fan of Jeffersons. I still like the whiskey they put out. However, in regards of an operation, it might have been a kind of a weird acquisition in my opinion. Anybody have any thoughts of like, is

26:00
Is ditches they don’t actually do a lot of distilling or heavy distilling, like Was it a good acquisition? Or is it just something that you know as Nick said to it, just maybe a brand recognition thing that you have to understand like this business is driven by brands like we look at things from where the liquid liquid comes from, but this business is really driven by like a name and they’re like it or not, whether you if you if you follow it or not, the Jeffersons ocean is one of the one of the best like marketing ploys of of the last 1015 years and American whiskey. Now I remember asking, I remember asking Trey for to see a man manifest that was barrels at that it was going to punch me but you know, you’ve got you have some people who disbelieve in that it’s the ocean barrel concept, but he does put them out there and it’s been one of the best like my

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And the conversations that are marketing boys, I’ve turned into conversations.

27:05
At least in my world, everyone’s like is a real? Is it real? Is it you know, so it’s it’s one of those things that it’s probably just just on that alone. And the fact that Jeffersons is, is everywhere.

27:19
I think it was a great, great acquisition for PR now. So there’s another comment here from Dan wall ski, you know, he sees Jefferson’s brand is probably worth the investment. However, he wouldn’t be surprised to see it now eventually start getting separated from Kentucky artisan and then becoming like a visitor destination of its own now, it’s a pretty good theory, I think for for what this could potentially be and where could go to think about the Kentucky owl situation, for example, you know, immediately it’s the plans for a gigantic, gigantic park in distillery, you know, so are we going to see something like that? Is that going to be the growth plan for her, not in this

28:00
Or are they just going to keep you know, continuing with the brand as it is and sourcing and kind of doing business as usual? Be curious to see how that changes over time.

28:10
For sure, and I think you know, there’s there’s also something that kind of it kind of jogged my memory when I think about this when we look at you know, we had Corky was last week’s podcast, we’ve had coffee from rabbit hole on and there’s always like this. A lot of these CEOs they say a lot of the same things of like, we’re never going to sell this is going to remain in the family forever. And then it’s like, is it though like is it like is it puts a fat check in front of your face? Like it’s got to be pretty hard to turn down. There’s always a number. I agree. I think you have to look at you know, let’s take a look at at those two particular brands. Kobe had a lot of investors.

28:56
Corky did all this with his own money and he’s got

29:00
Trust lined up and everything, it always comes down to the money. And look man, I’m in business. I don’t come from money. I’ve had to work for everything I’ve gotten. And when you sit down in a room with with money people, you know, they always want something. So, you know, you give up something to give up shares of your company or something to get what you want out of them. But this, you know, there comes a point where they’re like, okay, we’ve had a good time on this fried where’s our payout? We went out and that we want to cash out and so everything depends upon how your business structure is when you have these small distillers

29:41
you know one other one other in games is that like, this is Yeah, no, I agree. And I think for anybody that is ever getting into business like you always want to think like yes I do for the passion. I do it for the for the joy of what it is, but at the end of the day, if somebody puts a big fat check in front, your face

30:00
That’s, that’s part of the American dream too. So you can’t you can’t discount that. So, you know, as we kind of almost kind of switch gears a little bit. And this is one that I actually kind of like this one because Fred sent this a little bit before we started here. And this was the fact that

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PBR is getting ready to start making their very own whiskey. So I will drop the link here into the chat. I’m also going to drop it into

30:28
the YouTube chat as well so you can kind of see it, but really what it is, is PBR is now making a whiskey that’s been aged for a complete total of five seconds. So that should probably already kind of get your blood flowing a little bit. So they have recently talked about their have a new, hard sell to it’s coming out with a percent. But now they’re actually going to be doing a 40% whiskey. It’s already 40% ABV that has been aged for five seconds. So Fred kind of talked about this one Fred does this. Make your blood boil a little bit

31:00
Yeah, I have two words for PBR. Fuck you.

31:07
Yeah, I think it’s I think it’s a, you know, PBR is trying to be trendy and they got some headlines with this. But you know,

31:20
given that we’re, we have a brand that’s raised, basically repackaged Zi Ma, taking over the space of

31:30
millennial consumption. And actually really, Why call penetrates the entire world right now.

31:37
Anything is possible with what will be the next big thing and PBR has got a big brand behind it and I just, I just wish they would, you know,

31:47
this is this is a mockery of whiskey so i just i hate everything about it.

31:55
Nick, do you share any the same the same feelings, you know, I

32:00
Always look, I do think it’s interesting, it really created a buzz I think people who may not normally think about whiskey or bourbon or what they really are, you know, I think that just that buzz about that it’s going to go into a container into an oak container, it’s going to be aged for five seconds or, you know, whatever they end up doing with it, if anything, that’s an awareness, you know, piece of will have number one, how good is it going to be, you know, so for somebody that is just doing shots at a bar, they never think about anything, you know, as far as you know, whether they like things that are you know, higher quality, you know, longer aged, etc. What am I really drinking? Where does it get its color from things of that nature? It may cause some people to kind of get curious about what’s really there. And I think once people start getting educated reach the point of, you know, anybody who’s listening to this or watching this right now, you know, you’re obviously this is much farther behind, you know, where your journey started, or, you know, much farther behind where you are now where your journey started, but I think that’s the interesting

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part about it is kind of just that awareness. And what’s probably a younger crowd that’s going to be more, you know,

33:07
in tune with this or tasting this or whatever the case might be, you know, where it might make some people curious about exploring a little further and eventually getting to the point where they respect what’s going on with the actual, you know, creation and aging and things of that nature. So I think it’s interesting I don’t hate it in the same way that I guess that Fred does. You know, Willie succeed. I don’t know. You know, it’s it’s different than the beer in that sense of, you know, the beer. I see the market for this. I’m not so sure. I guess we’ll see. Yeah, I think you look at it, like everybody wants to try to create something. And you know, what’s PBR? PBR is not supposed to be some glorious luxury brand, right? Like this is supposed to be like bottom shelf like how like, How fast can we get this out the door and you know, really just churn product. And this might be following that same exact suit. I’m not too sure if this is supposed to be a a premium product by name.

34:00
Yeah, they’re not trying to be premium and I guess from my standpoint it PBR five second whiskey has no impact on me whatsoever and I don’t care about it. But I see where it’s it’s going like like Nick said it’s going to be at the is going to be at the bar for a shot and hopefully it overtakes

34:22
you know, some of these other flavored whiskeys which I don’t care about either as the you know, the new hot shot for college age through mid 20s. And then there’s going to be a market for that and there always will be in my day it was Yeager Meister and you know, that’s awful.

34:42
So, you know, knock knock your socks off, go ahead and do a five second whiskey. Try to sell it by by the shot to 24 year olds and I’ll keep drinking what I’ve been drinking.

34:55
So you know, you talked about flavored whiskey there. Have you all seen the the new phenomenon of

35:00
screwball the peanut butter flavored whiskey. Okay, I think I had it first at your house to tell you the truth. But it started it’s starting to catch on now like it’s out here. Now I see it here. It’s I mean, it’s in all the forums, people are talking about it. It’s like It’s like the white glove whiskey right now. That was the first time I had it was bourbon and beyond last year. So I don’t want to call myself a trendsetter. But you know, we did a

35:28
shout out to Tony from keg and bottle who actually gave me that probably about a year and a half ago. And he said, Kenny, I kid you not, this is going to be the next fireball. And so I mean, I guess a year and a half ago, he gave it to me and now all of a sudden, like people are buying and it’s taken off a little bit, but you gotta like peanut butter, that’s for sure. Because Yeah, definitely definitely has that. That flavor to it. Okay, then liked it or hate it.

35:55
All right, right position. Yeah. So So back to back to work.

36:00
whiskey. You know, there was something else that came out a few weeks ago on on geek calm, talking about the artificial tongue. Do y’all remember this? So I’ll talk about it. So the artificial tongue can taste the light. Subtle, subtle, subtle differences. Wait, hold on. Wait, hold on. Okay, I got it. You don’t have the art. I wonder what the artificial Tom thinks about the five second whiskey? I don’t know. That’s a good question.

36:26
I don’t know if that’s what it’s really made for, though. Who knows? Right? I guess we’ll find out one of these days. But this was built by Scottish engineers and it’s ultimately made to sit there and try to find counterfeit frauds or anything like that. That’s on the on the open market. And of course, you know, we talked about it with bourbon, you know, having counterfeit Pappy all the time and stuff like that. However, you’re going to see this even larger scale in the scotch world as well. So Fred, what are your kind of thoughts on this artificial tongue? Well, I’ve actually talked to

37:00
Quite a few people about this who are like in a tasers role and I think most everyone knows I do a lot of tasting. And I think it’s, I think it’s great if it’s not like, you know, stealing

37:16
that I’m curious to see like the data that like goes into it like how they how they create it, because I know of one like, you know algorithm that’s out there that’s been taking people’s tasting notes and applying them to basically putting a collective

37:37
algorithm together of like white to say, from people various like if you’re, if you’re writing tasting notes on Reddit, or if you have tasting notes on a blog or anything that’s scalable, there is now a there’s some spiders out there that’s out there taking him and they’re applying them elsewhere. So, robot tasting, so if it’s something like that, I’m not a fan of it, but if it’s something that really

38:00
actually adds to the, you know, our world. I’m all for it. But, you know, the thing is, is like Canada, it’s the right now their marketing is like spotting fakes. And that’s great. But I wonder what their next iteration will be. Because, you know,

38:23
eventually it’s going to be about like, you know, this is how you taste. So this is what you’re going to like. And, you know, I think that’s cool. Yeah, I think this could definitely lead to a lot of different things. I think. I think finding the counterfeits is a, it’s kind of like a it’s I don’t it’s like a gateway. Like, it’s, I don’t think it’s going to have a large purpose at first. Like, I think you need to cover a little bit more blanket area here when you’re trying to figure out exactly what can you do with this technology? It’s got to be a little bit more uniform, a little more universal of actually how to catch on into the point where, you know, you know, Fred, you taste a lot, however, like, is this something where it’s like, okay,

39:00
We’ve got six panelists that are humans and then our seventh is this AI machine, right? To make sure like, everything works like this out of this distillery, like, you know, we’ve been going for utilizing people for the longest time to you know, knows and tastes and actually understand what this what this is supposed to taste like and what typical batch it goes in, but we’re human like what is human it’s, it’s you have error error is built in versus a computer. Whereas if you’re feeding a data, like it’s just computations, so you know, knicker or Brian, like, do you kind of see this like, much more spreading its way out into? Maybe distilleries should start looking into this time of technology as well. So I’m just waiting for the movie where artificial tongues go rogue, and one of them decides is going to go and replace everybody’s whiskey with like rapid each whiskey because it’s got the perfect profile and there’s just insanity and chaos. You know.

39:59
I’m visually just look

40:00
is like little tongues across the street like just around like overtaken a rogue tongues. Yeah, rogue tongue, I think there could be great applications for it. You know, they just the question is, is it going to replace, not necessarily master distillers but you know, people that you know blend in in, you know, testing that takes place, you know, within distilleries, and producers, you think about kind of that non scientific nature of so much of this and even just tasting notes, like you’re talking about, I mean, the very non scientific process in the sense and that’s one of the kind of magical things about whiskey, you know, would we, you know, if there was inside each label or on each bottle, kind of like a very specific profile of a particular whiskey or almost a map that was scientifically put together, you know, would that be something that, you know, would enhance the experience to people want that, you know, is that the end result of what we’re even, you know, kind of dealing with here? I think it’s interesting from that aspect at the same time, I do think one of the

41:00
great things about whiskey is kind of the human and the art of whiskey. So it’s almost a kind of a weird dichotomy of technology and, and kind of that, you know, our full human interaction that, you know, you don’t want to see that necessarily overtaken but you do want to, you know, you do want to add you value when you can, you know, there’s so many whiskies are so expensive, that I could definitely see a, you know, a value proposition for somebody to say, Hey, is this something I might like, you know, for example, or how do we design a better, you know, a better whiskey. I’m just really I’m really excited that there’s been tech applied in

41:38
a valuable way usually, tech people apply it in the most into rapid aging or something that everyone’s trying to fix that when there’s really not a problem other than waiting.

41:51
But I’m just I’m just glad that somebody in the tech world is applying, applying their know how and skills to a very

42:00
particular area that we do probably could use some consistency. And I agree with Nick and I’ll take it a step further though i mean i think while it’s it’s beneficial in some respects, to have this AI tasting because the AI is not can be thrown off with what you had for lunch or what you had for dinner. It’s but it’s on the other hand, it’s going to be much more sterile of,

42:28
of an experience of a description of what you’re supposed to be tasting. And so much as Nick said, is so much of drinking whiskey is the experience and it can change if you’ve got a steak versus something else. And it can change in the mood and I’ve been doing it presentation Fred did. Music can affect what you’re what you’re experiencing, and AI is never going to get to well Famous last words as never going to

42:58
have the experience

43:00
That you can have with whiskey and if I’ve got a piece of Gouda that I’m eating with it, AI is not going to be able to tell me again Famous last words how that’s going to affect what what I’m experiencing at that moment. So it’s it’s nice but it’s to me it’s sort of like a party trick and we all know that Jim Beam or somebody would hack it to give like something like a legion like a 95

43:28
so now Brian, I’m picturing like, VR goggles, some scent thing going on here.

43:34
headphones with your favorite music, you know, you can certainly get right there. tastes and smells right at your at your disposal. Yeah, you see, a few Metallica, Metallica does that they have one of their tasters played various have everybody put on, you know, special headphones. And they have to taste like five different whiskeys. It’s all their whiskey but they

44:00
People say like the whiskeys taste different based on the music they’re listening to, and that there’s news, new evidence that suggests that what you listen to has a much deeper effect on on how you taste. So I am definitely on board with what Brian just said there that the AI will never be able to pick out a more of a human element at least and probably in our lifetime. I think. I mean, I don’t know, I think I think you’re right, I don’t think it’s gonna have that human element to it. However, I think there’s there’s a lot of potential of what this could do in regards of thinking that you want to create more, say a brand that has a very, very specific kind of character. And so you take, you take one outside of a particular barrel, then you get a chemical breakdown of like the 30 different things that are in it. And it’s like, you know, x percentage of something versus white percentage or another, and then you kind of figure out exactly Okay, I need this kind of percentages, and they all start equal now.

45:00
Alright, dump these barrels together. And now we eat. Now we kind of see this, this sort of specific profile that could be coming. So could be completely different in a way of building new brands versus just sitting there and saying like, okay, we’ll just go and make sure this is this is this is not Pappy. This is just regular WO Weller. And you know, the thing about checking if something’s fake or not, most the time when it matters, it’s sealed, and you want to keep it that way. So that application is a bit of a struggle, you know, because you’re probably rarely going to find a purchase contingent on you know, opening, pouring, tasting or testing or whatever the case might be. Yeah, how would you like to be the guy who just dropped $1.5 million on a bottle of McKenna gets a test and like, Oh, yeah, now. This is actually Glenfiddich, 12 year old, you almost don’t want to know.

45:55
Like, no, just keep those things away.

45:59
Yeah, there’s this

46:00
Definitely a bad side to that to it you know it as we start coming going down this path you know there’s something news that happened last week. You know, there has been a tear on the secondary market lately like there’s just groups are disappearing left and right.

46:17
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48:20
There has been a tear on the secondary market lately like there’s just groups are disappearing left and right. And even the secondary backup BSM group that was over on me we may way whatever it is, is that’s now gone as well. So it’s not like it’s just Facebook, it looks like this is like a virus that’s continually trying to spread and it’s just getting knocked out sort of wherever it goes. Now don’t get me wrong, there’s still a few groups that are remaining You know, they’re probably around like the two to 3000 member Mark but there’s nowhere near even on the bsm on me was like almost 10,000 or above. So it seems that we’re everybody flocks to

49:00
These are just getting can left and right.

49:03
Now I’ve tried to reach out haven’t really heard anything of in regards of why it happened or anything like that. However, it just seems there’s there’s no safe haven right now. Do you all kind of see this as is this can be the new norm? Or is it just like, it’s just hot for the moment? We’ll have to wait ride this wave, and then maybe here in another three months, will we back up to where it was, is going to happen. It’s just a matter of what in when. And it might change over time. You know, as we’re seeing right now, it’s certainly changing how the communication is done. Probably the bigger question is if we have these call it a period of a drought, for example, which is interesting, because this is happening, you know, before we start seeing some of the big fall releases and things of that nature, you’ve got to ask yourself is is that going to change the the primary market, you know, because how much of the primary market is driven by what ends up happening on the secondary market? You know, so a lot of people buying you know, basically

50:00
The idea that they’re going to be able to turn around and sell for a profit, if that is no longer in place or that you know, you knock out 50% or some in reasonable percentage of the, you know, people that are able to do that or see their ability to do that. Does that start driving prices down on the primary? I think it’ll be interesting to see how that you know, kind of goes over the the upcoming months here. Yeah, I think we’re going to see this in Natalie. That is, I think Brad Atlas had a post that was on Blake’s group, this past week of, you know, the the new each Taylor amaranth has been album release. However, nobody can figure out what a price should be on it because there’s no room there is no place to auction off and figure out what’s going to be even today. There were I think, like 72 birthday Bourbons that were sold at old forester distillery downtown to kind of commemorate the old forester birthday bourbon and George bourbon Browns birthday. However, I haven’t seen a whole heck of a lot of them show up on anywhere. So you know, this

51:00
Is this could be a sign of the times that, you know, hopefully you’re buying it to hold on to it because finding the outlets to sell it is getting a lot harder now. It’s definitely interesting.

51:12
I, you know, I, I’m beta testing an app right now and I’ve been asked if, like, people can do that and I’m like, Well, you know, I have that I have to, like, seriously look at that now. And I’m thinking of like the potential liability associated with it. I’m like,

51:29
you know, maybe you don’t know maybe in your chat your own little private chat group, which I can’t see but

51:37
it’s, it’s fascinating to me. How this this domino effect and I would love I would love to sit down with Mark Zuckerberg interview request I put out many times by the way, never that I have a probably, but I would love to find out if like he’s had a hand in or some on Facebook, haven’t you know, I would love to hear the rationale behind it. But I know they

52:00
said some things but there’s more to it, there’s gotta be more to it. It just doesn’t. just doesn’t make sense to me, especially with this new, this, this new social media site dumping it so quickly. It just, it’s odd. Just, it’s gonna be coming down from somewhere else. I mean, fame makes you wonder if brands are involved. Sorry, brands, you know, if we’ve got brands or somebody specific, you know, with intent, you know, and is watching this more closely, and specifically, I think that’s a great question. And they have been watching these markets for for some time because they would even like, you know, price their whiskey to, to combat it, but I would, I would argue that it may not be a brand behind it, but a very powerful retailer. You know, who wants that money

52:58
and knows that that money

53:00
He’s out there they want they want your dollar. They don’t want you to buy it, you know, SRP and then flip it. I mean, there’s any number of areas this could go, there’s any number of people who would like to see it stop.

53:13
But I do know this. I, I know that most of the like the state authorities don’t really care. You know, I mean, I’ve talked to him about it, and they’re really care, you know, but like Texas does, Texas cares, Pennsylvania. All the control states actually. But

53:33
you know, this is doesn’t seem to be like, any kind of state leading it.

53:39
Yeah, I mean, I don’t know. The control states, they don’t want competition. And Sylvania doesn’t want to know, what cracks me up about Pennsylvanians. Every year they send out a press release, and oh, we lost like three or four of them this year, or one was broken in and transport. And I’m like, wow, I bet it suddenly got lost on the

54:00
The state majority leaders front still front step and you know the bottle accidentally broke after it was consumed by the directors house in our at the directors house and me is just it’s all kinds of silly with with Pennsylvania

54:15
well let’s control states in general but you know I think when we when we look at just the secondary market you know we’ve talked about it in regards of like how this built a culture This is probably how bourbon has a mass to how big it is because most people wouldn’t even know about a lot of brands if they didn’t see them on the secondary markets begin with I mean it’s we all have our stories so I think it’d be it’d be interesting to kind of see where this is going to go you know me when I look at it I think this was this is a critical and crucial part of really what made bourbon what it is today. And you know, there’s going to have to be somewhere where people can basically value this as sort of currency maybe it’s trading You know, I’m, I don’t like to sit there and say like, yeah, go get a birthday bar, birthday bourbon, 450 bucks and go try to sell for 300 like

55:00
I’m not all about that However, it’s like, if you get a birthday bourbon 450 yet, you can’t get a George t stag this year. And that’s just part of the trade. And that’s great, right? That’s, that’s something that you are able to get your hands on, you can kind of trade your way there, you know, and start with a paperclip unit with a plane. But that’s that’s essentially like where I like to be able to see this because it’s all about getting the, you know, the bourbon that you want in your hands and kind of how to get it. But yeah, I mean, I think you’re right, but for to the point of like this, this help kind of like spread the enthusiasm.

55:33
I know like the people in the groups, if you if you put it on scale, you’re looking at maybe at most like 2 million or something, at least the various groups that I knew of, and that’s not a lot in the grand scheme of things. Those people who are like everybody’s influencer in their families in their workplace, and they would be the people out there talking about bourbon so and it was the these groups kind of became community

56:00
Bs and I was, you know, I, I love them. You know, I love them because we’re actually I love them five years ago, you know, they they changed quite a bit in the last couple years, but they were very, very engaging. You can talk history, you can talk about who distilled water like, I mean, I remember having a conversation with someone educating them about Woodrow Wilson, which if you don’t know, he was a master distiller, it’s it’s a well or for a very short period. But you know, he made some good whiskey. And so I guess a, you know, as we start thinking of other ways of how is the bourbon market being hindered, you know, there’s been finally some data that’s now coming out about the US whiskey exports and the tariffs that are now happening over in the EU. So when we start looking at this, you know, I look at some of the data here and I’ll again, I’ll drop the link in the chat for folks that want to be able to see this. You can see all these links in our show notes as well.

57:00
But the distilled spirits council came and said that there was a 21% decrease from June 2018 to June to 2019. That was all lost sales after shipments to Europe plummeted. So we’ve got the data coming in.

57:19
You know, I know Fred, you’re you’re kind of close to this. Is there a way that things could eventually bounce back to help bourbon brains grow? And I will always say it again that if somebody says, Oh, yeah, this is great, because it means more bourbon on the shelves for me. You’re in the wrong here. Okay. Think bigger. Well, there have been some really nice trade related things that have happened like in a couple weeks, I was invited to to meet the European Union ambassador to the United States. And they’re celebrating scotch Irish and bourbon whiskey, the you know, the unique designations of them and like all the all the country

58:00
kind of coming together in Washington DC to celebrate this. And so, from an industry perspective, you know, they have the ears of their legislators, their ambassadors, their Parliament or whatever.

58:14
You know, Brexit also, you know, through a wrinkle into it. So in an odd way Brexit could be

58:23
you know, it could be good for for the tariffs,

58:27
you know, for that particular portion. But, yeah, so those are a couple of the good things but in in all seriousness, you know, they’re not letting up you know, Europe is still very hell bent on applying pressure. And you know, there’s been reports that they want to apply more pressure you know, in in in mitch mcconnell areas so I just, I just don’t see this you know, being good and it’s in it’s shut out small brands like the topping Creek completely. And Kenny, I know you’re a brand owner.

59:01
You know, you want to, let’s say you want to open them. You have a small shop in Poland, who absolutely loves to show loves you wants to make you his number one whiskey in his store, you won’t find a distributor in that entire country that’ll take your call. You know, it’s just because of tariffs, they don’t want to pass that on it. They’re just not taking calls from small American lyst companies. So

59:25
yeah, and I think this is this is, as I mentioned before, I mean, this is so much bigger than just what you can get here in the shelves like this is this is trying to grow the category as a whole to start taking on scotch as as, you know, the whiskey in the market. And we can’t get to that level scotch unless you have a fair playing field, you know, across the board to be able to say like, okay, like, let’s get this in the hands of people in Australia and Zimbabwe and China and, you know, in the EU as well, like, how can we grow this as a whole. And this is really where the tariffs are going to start really being that that first sort of

1:00:00
Hand slap, I guess you could say is, if you’re trying to reach a new market, you know, all of a sudden, if you have a, if you got a 30 or $40 bottle here in the States, I mean, you’re, you’re looking at doubling that, if not coming close to triple as you start getting, you know, already just distribution overseas, but now the tariffs are adding a lot more to it. And if you can’t compete with a, you know, 50 $60 bottle of scotch, then you’re, you know, you’re already setting yourself up for failure. And so, you know, as we start kind of rounding this out, you know, Nick and, Brian, I kind of want to get your sort of thoughts on this, if you have any sort of inkling of what do you kind of see next? Maybe, if it’s an election year, is there anything that could change? You know, after that as well, Nick, you go ahead and go first. I was gonna I was gonna say the same.

1:00:53
You know, I, it’s, I think it’s tough to say what’s going to happen going forward. I’d be really curious.

1:01:00
To see, you know, what small brands are seeing the impact of this right now?

1:01:06
Immediately,

1:01:09
you know, like anything, I think there’s the initial shock of it, but then, you know, demand is demand. So if that means to 20% increase in price or whatever the case might be, if the demand is there

1:01:21
over time might cause that to, you know, to become a non issue. But, but it’s a barrier of entry as a starting point. So when you think about bourbon growing on a global scale, and the potential it has on a global scale, you know, certainly that’s a pretty

1:01:40
pretty immediate, you know, block of have taken that first step for a lot of you know, a lot of these brands on that larger scale. You know, what if you see this go on for a period of time, then suddenly it goes away, you know, do you have the opposite impact you have suddenly a flood of, you know, a flood of opportunity, a flood

1:02:00
brands that are saying, Okay, now this opportunity just opened up, we’re going to put pressure on actually doing this. Because if you think about all the brands that are out there, especially the small ones, how many of them are actually taking those steps right now to get overseas? I’d be curious out of this 1000 or 1200 distilleries. You know, in the US, for example, how many you’re saying, Let’s get on the shelves in Europe, or let’s get on the shelves in Australia or Japan or whatever the case might be? China, what’s the market like over there? But it will be interesting to see how it plays out, you know, like anything, it’s it’s a global economy, we’re going to see the push and pull. And I think ultimately, the long term play for bourbon for us whiskey is to be probably bigger than scotch, quite frankly, I personally think is better, you know, so there’s no really no reason why it can’t be bigger or at least just as big it’s just a matter of time and what you know, things are going to have to move and shift around and what dominoes are going to have to fall in when

1:03:00
can’t allow that to, you know, to really gain some momentum and happen. Bourbons got a long way before it catches scotch. And I’ll tell you like, this is why this is why the tariffs are so frustrating to me is that, you know, bourbon became a unique product to the United States largely in part because they were trying to get special designation so they would not get tariffs after world to the country, the rest of the world basically tariff bourbon and open the open the markets for scotch to help the United Kingdom recover from World War Two because, you know, they were bombed and everything, they took a much greater hit on the physical real estate of their country. And, and so they were places like Argentina, you know, was terrifying us like 200% United Kingdom actually had like limits of bourbon that they would allow in the country for a given year. And when they would actually when the bourbon distillers would push to like, you know, have exports. You know, the French basically came back and said,

1:04:00
Why would we give you any kind of anything carefree when bourbon doesn’t mean anything to us? Like you have no special designation, of course the French, you know being the home of cognac and Champagne has a very unique understanding of like designation for alcohol. And and so in 1958, they started the bourbon industry started banding together and working to make bourbon, a unique product in the United States. And after that in 1964, they then had the ability to negotiate and free trade agreements to peel away tariffs. And this they have been doing that since the 1960s. And they’ve only just now gotten to the point where they’re where their exports are over a billion dollars. So that’s why this is like so painful for the industry is like bourbon has never been in these countries. I mean, you go to places like Portugal, and Spain you see to you know, 10 years ago, you’d see to

1:05:00
bottles. Now, you know, you still see only two bottles and most bars but now you’ll have some bars that will have 10 2030 so and that’s because the reduced tariffs are no tariffs have opened up the markets and now with the tariffs coming back in, those markets are going to go away. And that’s why it’s so fucking frustrating. Fred, what immediate impact if you were to kind of try to quantify the impact of the tariffs as a worst case? What immediate impact do you think that could have? Look at the next say, two years, three years, for example? Well, you definitely saw some smaller brands that were, you know, gambling on opening up markets in Europe, you saw a lot of that now that’s taken away and now they’re being forced to like, you know, market themselves here. And as you know, Americans have a very different taste of what whiskey is in the European. So I would say like a small craft distiller could probably fool someone in Poland, that there are three year olds.

1:06:01
is actually good. You know, here, you know you’re not going to be able to fool someone who’s used to, you know, Kentucky bourbon. So you basically take off like, basically change someone’s business plan. The other one. I think brown Forman is in a super risk position. They’ve already came out said they’re losing like 128 million

1:06:22
a year based on jack daniels exports alone. So I think they are very vulnerable.

1:06:31
And, you know, they could they could see some major, you know, reductions are some shifts in like, what they how they do things, but jack daniels is a very strong brand. And you know, they should be they should be fine. One positive note porno coming into American whiskey much stronger. That’s another European country. It’s another European allied to negotiate on behalf of American whiskey. And let me piggyback on that. I mean,

1:07:00
When you by no means well traveled, but when I go there, there’s there’s, you know that two three brands that you always say there’s there’s bullet and every bar there’s Maker’s Mark, and there’s jack daniels. And beyond that you’ve got to go to a specialty shop. There is one in Bath independent spirits that if anyone goes anywhere near there, you’ve got to go.

1:07:28
But it’s it’s all these big brands so the small brands can’t meet the demand that they have here. So I think it is an issue for brown Forman with jack daniels and it is an issue for the ALGEO bringing bullet over over to Europe. But they’re all still making more bourbon than they’ve ever made and Diaz to starting a whole nother damn new distillery.

1:07:55
I don’t know the answer to this and that’s why I was trying to defer to Nick but

1:08:00
Seeing the big distilleries continue to turn out bourbon at at a record pace tells me they have faith that this is just a blip and it’ll get resolved and will be able to open the European more they’ll get into India, they’ll continue to change.

1:08:22
And if they don’t, we’ve got the same issue we had in the 60s and we’ll all be drinking 20 year old bourbon on the cheap.

1:08:33
There’s, there’s a there’s a big thing that’s different. Now you have tourism for years, you know, bourbon has been up and down, up and down. It’s basically just all based off of what you’re drinking. Well, now you have tourism, tourism component. So these brands are trying to create a lot of lifestyle. And from a liquid perspective, we’re still not back to where we were in the 70s from a production standpoint, so a lot of the money that they are spending is actually not on the liquid. It is on the lifestyle and tourism now

1:09:00
And that’s fun and sexy. But that’s not getting bottles on the shelf.

1:09:06
That’s a good way to close it out. You know, as we started talking about, you know, the very beginning this we kind of talked about the growth, the hype, and now we’re talking about like, we must save bourbon because we have to make sure that these tariffs don’t really affect it. And, you know, I think I think it’d be it’d be pretty good if we could get on the inside walls if there’s like a meeting amongst like the top eight bourbon companies and they all try to predict and forecasts and say like, Well, why are you building a 50,000 barrel warehouse? And we’re not starting yet. Like, what do you see that we’re not seeing? So it’d be cool to kind of understand exactly, if we could get somebody to show that is a, I guess, a bourbon economist, kind of can forecast out really what the next 10 years look like? Well, we’ll put that on the the to do list for us. So, you know, with that, as we start kind of rounding this out, I want to say Gentlemen, thank you again for coming on the show. And thank you, everybody to that was sitting here watching it live. I think we are concurrent watchers, some around like 75 at some point, so 63 so that was awesome.

1:10:00
Thank you so much for everybody that was on here. So we least had over 100 that joined us. But as we kind of start rounding this out, you know, Nick, Brian, go ahead and kind of, say your goodbyes, if you will. Sure. Thanks, Kenny. Thanks guys. I can I’m Nick from breaking bourbon, breaking bourbon com. Check us out on social media at breaking bourbon. And thanks guys. This was fun. always enjoy chatting on a Monday night and drinking bourbon so can’t get much better. Nope.

1:10:34
All right, Brian, you’re up. Yeah. Thanks for having me again. This is Brian with sip and corn, Twitter Instagram and Facebook all sip and corn and online at bourbon justice calm or sip and corn. Calm and let’s let’s make sure we’re thinking of Blake to he dropped off pretty quick there. And think of everybody in Florida that’s got this hurricane bearing down on. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1:11:00
You know, this is this is also going to be the last roundtable before we saw each other at bourbon beyond. I know we’re all really super psyched about it. Can’t wait to meet a lot of you that are going to be there. So make sure that if you are there, don’t feel scared or anything come up and say hi to us. You know, we love talking to everybody. So Fred, I’ll let you kind of go and close it out for us. Yeah, one quick thing I correct correction to something I said I’d said that porno had Barden it’s not true constellation had Barton and they sold it 2009 constellation. Also coming back into the bourbon business but welcome thank you guys so much for for for hanging out with us this evening. I love this show. The roundtables is my favorite thing that we do with bourbon pursuit. And if you’re not following bourbon pursuit on Twitter, and Instagram and Facebook, you got to do it. It’s just at bourbon pursuit. There you’ll see Kenny’s bar collection for like 24 days in a row and

1:12:00
A random watch this tonight. It’s the roundtable. Yep, absolutely. So make sure you know he gave us the shout out. Make sure you’re following all these guys on social media. You can find their handles in our show notes as well. With that, cheers fellas. Thanks again, and we’ll see everybody at bourbon and beyond. Cheers, everyone. Thanks, everyone.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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