The roundtable is back at it again, but this time we are joined by David Jennings of RareBird101 and Wade Woodard of tater-talk to discuss some topics. Learn how you can be a part of Wild Turkey history by supporting RareBird101 on Kickstarter and if you agree or disagree with Wade on barrel finished bourbon classifications. We wrap up talking about limited editions and store picks because that’s always a hot button for all.
- The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Joy Perrine, the first female bartender to be inducted into the Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame.
- Wild Turkey Kickstarter with David Jennings of RareBird101 – https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rarebird101/wild-turkey-american-spirit
- News came out this week that the TTB is allowing “specialty whiskey” classifications to adorn the name bourbon on the label. Is this the demise of the bourbon law?
- Maker’s Mark released another limited edition. From a retail standpoint, isn’t this the easiest money that’s ever been made?
- When it comes to store picks should retailers care about what’s in the bottle? Taste vs Age, who wins? Will it sell no matter what?
- Thank you to Blake of bourbonr.com, Brian of sippncorn.com, and Jordan of breakingbourbon.com for joining as usual.
Everybody’s a lot of chime in whenever they can. Jordan.
just lost anyone else. Did you know? All right, I mean, you know when your video wasn’t breaking up, you might have saw.
Hey everybody, welcome back to Episode 196. of bourbon pursuit. I’m one of your hosts Kendrick Coleman. And this is the Community Roundtable. That means I don’t have any news to talk about because all we talk about is the news. On the round table. We get some of the latest gossips and the fun cultural topics that we all love to hit on such as barrel selections, but a little bit news about us. We recorded a live podcast this week with Corky Taylor of peerless distilling company. Make sure that you don’t miss out on our live streams and live recordings because we have
Another one coming up in May. Make sure you’re following us on all our social media channels Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And you’re going to be the first to know when we go live. Are you interested in partnering with bourbon pursuit? We’re the most downloaded whiskey podcast across America. Check out how you can get your brand in front of a million bourbon drinkers per year at bourbon pursuit calm and hit the partnership button. Or you can send us an email team at bourbon pursuit calm. Now with that, let’s hear a little message from Joe over a barrel bourbon. And then you’ve got Fred Minnick with the above the jar.
Joe from barrel craft spirits here. Barrell Craft Spirits is more than just bourbon, we blend rye, whiskey, rum and we have a signature infinite barrel project. Find us at your local retailer.
I’m Fred making this is above the char. If you walked into a low level bar in the 1980s you had a variable
little chance of getting a good Manhattan or old fashion or Mint Julep. Most of the bartenders were used to just slinging beer and porn, a little whiskey. Oh, nice or neat. And then came a young woman named joy Perrine. She came from the Caribbean islands where she served as a bartender at St. Croix and made all sorts of daiquiris and various types of from drinks and all kinds of banana frozen concoctions that made the island visitors quite happy. Local had never seen anybody like joy brainy. She stood behind the bar and slung mint juleps like nobody here before. She made Manhattan’s and created special syrup that would complement Bourbons, unique to Kentucky. She was so amazing. That Esquire called her the bad girl of bourbon and the reason why she would tell you off if you
ordered a bourbon the wrong way in her opinion or if you boasted a little too much about what you thought you knew about purpose
because of her accomplishments in life, Joy preening was named in the bourbon Hall of Fame, the only female bartender to be inducted into the bourbon Hall of Fame. When she passed away two weeks ago, I thought about my relationship with a 73 year old. She was quick witted, would always tell you what she thought, but boy that she loved family. She loved her daughter, she loved my family. And I gotta tell you, if you were ever enjoy parade, nice presence and she made you a drink that taste that moment. It would last a lifetime.
her longtime employer, Dean corporate, died a few months ago as well. And I like to think that both of them are upstairs right now in the cloud somewhere, sipping on a bourbon
hope that I can only add to what Dean and joy did for the local community. And whatever you do in bourbon, whether it’s consumer or promoted, I hope we can all live up to the standards that joy Perrine created.
And that’s this week’s above the char. Hey, did you know I got a new magazine out? Go check it out. It’s on newsstands now look for bourbon plus and Whole Foods, Kroger, Barnes noble, and a lot of other places where magazines are sold. Hit me up on Twitter or Instagram at Fred Minnick. Until next week. Cheers.
Welcome. This is the 31st recording of the bourbon community around table is another favorite of bourbon pursuit because this is the opportunity that not only do we have a variable mix of some of the biggest bloggers and authors in the scene of bourbon here to join us, but we get to talk about
recent news and it’s also the opportunity for fans for people that are in the bourbon community as well to join and watch this happen live and be a part of the live chat as it goes down so, Kenny Ryan and Fred here from bourbon pursuit team fellas, how you doing tonight?
3031 times down we had we had to mess up.
question Why do we do with the hardball?
Where’s the bunnies? I’m trying to count all the towels on the bottom of the screen. I’m like how many people we got
is the round table as a bourbon family and I’m here at my cigar family and the lounge, smoking a stogie and just excited to get this going. I’m in my basement, looking at my kids two ways.
You know, let’s do this pregame. know everybody’s got a little bit better atmosphere but this is also the pre game that we’re recording this about an hour before the
NCAA Men’s National Basketball Championship kicks off. For me. I’ve got to still go with sec. So I’m pulling for Auburn tonight. Ryan, Fred, what about you all Auburn’s not playing tonight? Really?
Where are you talking about 30 games? Getting? Oh, yeah, you’re right. Sorry. Virginia. Virginia.
Tech. Yeah, I’m waiting for the one but they found you know,
start over from the topic.
I’m going I’m going to go actually have Virginia, Virginia. Virginia has had to crazy wins. So, like the probable odds of winning those games are like, not profitable. So probably they’re going to win them. Go Texas Tech. Red Raiders. There we go. So we got our first three in. Let’s go ahead and kick it off with our Cal Ripken of the Community Roundtable. Blake. Take it away. Yep. Just just continuing the streak all the way through undefeated
In the bourbon really count
I’m not sure
if you play if you throw a pitch and a game you counted as played but no so tonight well I’m Blake from burner burner calm and steel box calm so for tonight’s game don’t really have a dog in the fight
yeah birthday day of being a Florida fam. Ok now go back to back national championships a decade ago but
I think it’d be interesting to see Virginia when you know to go from the first number one seed to get knocked off by 16 seed and then go back and win the national championship the next year. That’s pretty cool story.
Texas Tech and really I just have no connection to other than I’d like that bobby knight coach there for a few years but so my heart would say Virginia but I don’t think they are they’re going to win. I think Texas Tech actually wins. For going to do a spread. I’m going to say Texas Tech
by seven and
one up this Yeah.
bourbon or pick on that one if anybody wants to me. Oh, nothing’s really
can I put my mortgage down on it?
That’s a five star guaranteed.
Brian second quarter to go ahead and take it. All right, thanks. Yeah, this is Brian was sipping corn find me at bourbon justice calm or sipping corn calm
my team tonight I’m in protest so I’m still rooting for the cats somehow some way but since they can’t win since it was robbed from us I’m going Texas Tech tonight the the probability that Ryan was talking about of some of those games that Virginia one and just not being able to put points on the board makes me think this is a Texas Tech kind of night. There we go. Thank you and an honor of one of our topics and one of our guests. I’ve got a wild turkey 1850
Five the 1.8 proof nice and I’ve got a drink the rest of it because reminder to people quirks can still break after the initial opening so the rest of this is going down
somebody’s gonna sleep really well tonight Cheers.
Jordan take it away. sure this is Jordan from breaking bourbon calm one of the three guys on the site visits for the Release Calendar. In Depth reviews can also find us on social app breaking bourbon, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Patreon. And for the championship game since Dukes been knocked out. I’m gonna stick with ACC and refer Virginia. Alright, and then we’ve got two other guests that are joining us tonight and they’re always familiar faces to the podcast as well. First I’m going to go with Wade Woodard who is he’s keeps the Tater library. He’s got Tater talk calm. So welcome back to the show. Hi, good to be here. As you mentioned, I’m a whiskey geek. I have a blog side paid or hyphen talk. com
I am the compliance officer of the Texas whiskey Association. And we are within the next month launching a Texas whiskey trail with 14 distilleries on the Texas whiskey trail.
Let’s see the game tonight. I one time was in Lubbock and I had an Aggie sticker on my car and I went into a restaurant and I came back outside and I had to slash tires
know I came here for other writers. I guess I had to go over with Virginia tonight and because it’s working, you know, I brought out my Monday evening bottles here so I’m having a little while I’ll turn feature of you might spark so here’s just a poor
just happens to be above his computer as we’re recording.
All right, and then David Jennings of Robert, welcome back to the show. Hey, glad you had me on.
Absolutely and you know, give a plug about you know what you do and that’ll kind of lead us into our first topic tonight. Okay, well, I have a blog. It’s rare bird one or one.com primarily reviews the wild turkey whiskies. I have some articles from time to time, there’s resources there with the timeline and bottle codes and this kind of thing. And more recently, I just finished a first draft of wild turkey book, which I don’t know if you want me getting into that or not right now. But anyway, I’m just glad to be on as far as a I’m just guys I’m just not into sports as much as you guys so in my house I’m rooting for wild turkey wins every night.
Also, the say is like is there something in your life that like doesn’t revolve around wild turkey like at some point is your wife or your kids are just like God, we can just quit it just
a little bit, but I try to keep it you know, try to keep it in check. So anyway, it’s all it’s all fun.
And it’s my passion. I mean, I really enjoy it. So, you know, it’s,
it’s hard. You know, if you’re if you don’t love something, you’re not going to do it every day. But when you’re really passionate about something, it just happens all the time. So that’s that’s my life on a weekly basis. And I David, I gotta tell you, when you when you reach out to me to read your manuscript, I was really honored and to see where you’re going with it is fascinating and starting a Kickstarter campaign that is one of the it’s one of the riskiest things you can do as an author to go out there and, and do that because you’re putting yourself out there everyone’s going to see what the donations are. So take us through that process. Why did you choose to go with the Kickstarter route? Okay, well, you know,
well, you know, how difficult it is probably back when you first started to get somebody to pay attention to you and and give you some type of publishing deal and or one that’s even worth a flip and
I didn’t really want to compromise. I was,
um, you know, willing to entertain, you know, publishing offers and that type of thing. But ultimately, you know, I,
I felt like no matter what I did, if I went that route, it was going to take a long time. And you told me, you know, we’re looking at maybe February, the earliest, you know, something worked out, maybe later. And so, I felt like this was the year you know, I wanted to get something out there. This is Jimmy’s 65th year coming up in September on September 10. And I would love to have a copy of this in his hands by that day. And I thought, well, I think I have a strong enough fan base to get just enough to make that happen, you know, hire a photographer and, and get some designed to have a nice looking book. You know, it’s not going to be probably as nice as some of the other hardcover books out there. But it was enough. You know, I thought I could get enough together to make it something worth buying, you know, and I’ll be honest with you, setting up
Kickstarter, it wasn’t as easy as it was, when I set up my Patreon, there was a lot more verification to it, and you know, there was no guarantee that it would be approved. And so I put everything out there and tried to set it up as best I could and just kind of cross my fingers that they would sign off on it. I did.
And now and I did the math, and I’m like, okay, I just want to break even, you know, with this, you know, I don’t want to, you know, you know, set myself upside down with rewards in this type of thing. So I sat down and did my math. I watched a lot of YouTube videos on how to run a successful campaign.
And so I did my research. And so I came up with 30 $500
is probably enough to get the design photography, all this stuff together to get something out their own. We’re a book can be purchased on the on demand basis, which I’m sure you’re familiar with Fred, but like with Amazon, you can publish a book on demand. So you send them a PDF file, and they print the book as people buy it. And so I was just trying to cover the cost to get the book there. Okay.
it alarmed me to find out, you know, within 24 hours. I mean, it was like I had like $1,000 already, you know, and then today I hit goal, like, you know, 10am or 11am or something. And I mean, and now I’m at like 40 $500
or something you know, and the Bergen community.
Y’all are some good all of y’all. Well, David, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you that
we will open up their wallets to turn, you know, like they’re they do that to people that like, and you’ve always come off as a very genuine very fun person. And you get to know you and see if it’s even more and then you got that South Carolina accent. You know, where’s this all in? Bill Clinton
when I was sick Yeah. But yeah
Well, you know, guys,
it’s, it’s humbling it really is and I really appreciate it and appreciate you know y’all having me on. I’m going to continue with the Kickstarter is going on for another 5756 days or so. And everything you know, every penny I get above my goal is just going to go right back into the project whether I can make a classier book than I originally set out to. Or I can do some marketing. Like, you know, I’ve been thinking about some ads or this type of thing where I could at least try to, I’m not gonna be able to compete with the big publishers but I can I can maybe hit a target audience better than they can now. You can whip their ass
so let’s let’s kind of decent here today with 57 days left your auto pays to make $256,500
Y’all keep talking like that. David, I will give you I’ll give
Just some economics behind you know, books like I, you know, I’ve been writing books for more than 10 years now and my first my first my first whiskey book whiskey women, I had like 500 rejections and you know, if I had the access like Kickstarter or had the notion to do that I would have I probably would have done it but my advanced for that was $2,000 and so they don’t like that typewriter manuscript
that. So you you actually stand you know for what how you’re going about this. You probably actually stand to make you know, legitimate money off of it. You know, from from the book sales. If you’re putting it all back and look like that’s the goal was just to kind of see if I can, you know, upgrade the product because I would love to have something in my hands that is comparable to what you would find will book stand
I’m not cutting any corners with the Amazon print on demand. I mean, it’s going to be a full color photo quality, highest grade paper that they have is going to be soft cover, unfortunately, because amazon kindle demand does not do hardcover. But if I continue to raise funds like this, I can have the Amazon Kindle demand for an option. And then I might be able to go to like book baby or Ingram spark or something, and print some hardcover additions. And those might have to be on a limited basis. It just depends, you know, but that’s kind of where I would like to go with it.
The most important thing to me is that I won’t something I want something in Jimmy’s hands, that’s what I want. If I can just tell his story, and of course, you know, there’s a story in there and there’s a lot about data in there. But if that is what I really won’t, because Jimmy is such a legend, and I feel like it’s it’s his time to get even, I mean, he’s had a lot of accolades. I’m not gonna lie, you know, he’s had a lot of people
Give him various honors. But I think is there’s a story there that a lot of people have not heard yet. And I think that this is the time this is the year his 65th anniversary at the distillery. And I really want to make that happen. And I want to make it happen this year. And it looks like it’s going to happen now. Thanks to everybody. And I’m a Patreon supporters and, and everybody that’s donated on Kickstarter, people that have tweeted, retweeted, done stories on Instagram, Facebook posts, emails, word of mouth, all this stuff really helps, and I really appreciate it. And I can’t say thank you enough, I really can’t.
Well, you’ve got more time to go here. You know, you, you hit a goal within three days, which is fantastic. You still got 5050 some odd more days to go here. So I kind of want to let you give, you know, sort of one last plug that are sort of on the edge or like maybe thinking oh, well, he’s already got his funding, like why should I even bother to promoted or back is still but give some ideas of why people should still back it because of the stories and some of the content
You’re going to be delivering inside of there as well. Okay, great. Well, again, I want to take any extra funds raised and increase the quality of the product and promote the product. And the purpose of promoting the product is to make sure that the story of the recipes and the Russell’s and of wild turkey distillery in the Lawrenceburg area is put out there. And I think like said, it’s a story that needs to be told. And it’s the right time with Jimmy’s anniversary. And then we had the one to one anniversary last year with Jimmy and Eddie’s combined service. And so that is the most important thing to me. If it stays a self published thing where it’s promoted on my blog, or my, you know, Twitter feed or my Instagram, it will reach people, it just won’t reach as many people and so I need to make sure I can raise enough to get it to the right places, like bourbon plus, or something like an adverb plus would be a really cool thing. And so that is that’s my goal. So I just have to raise enough money to do that. And I think the other
You know, there’s content there that you will enjoy. And there’s a whole appreciation section to it’s not just history so if like history is not your thing if you’re like I just don’t really, there’s there’s gonna be a lot of reviews on there are tasting notes, my impression on different expressions, and I’m doing a lot of photography I’m paying for a lot of photography so the book is going to have a ton of bottle porn in it. It’s going to have a lot of like cocktail porn. It’s just yeah it’s just going to be just loaded with excited just loaded with but just good porn at the end and I’ve got a good photographer so I it’s I’m not it’s not you know my stuff.
I you know, wait, I don’t mind hitting up whiskey advocate either, but they’re not on the show tonight.
I’m going to talk about bourbon.
Know your audience and you you talk porn. So
let’s change the subject back to that.
You know, I’d like to get them in the bc i don’t know if that’s going to happen or not, I haven’t really talked to compile it too much other than I did arrange some.
Well, at least I started the process of arranging to have the photographer come in and be able to take photographs, and make sure that there’s no you know, questions there.
But, you know, it would be nice to get them in in the visitor center. I think it’ll probably happen in time maybe after it’s done and somebody has something to look at. I’m doing a very limited run this week, I sent a local printer
the book without pictures to have a just like a mock up late. So it’ll be in the eight, you know, the five by 5.585 or whatever, you know, kind of book format digest format, and,
and I’m going to send those out to a few people to do some editing and some review. Might you might get your targeted at date for release. And how can how can your fellow panelists here help you okay.
I would like to have it completed in time to give it to Jimmy so that would be September 10. I’d have to have it in his hands so September to at least have a run of the book done by local printer so it would be exactly like what would be on Amazon but I can work with my local printer and have that rushed and done quick so I can do that habit FedEx. So you know I guess sep tember first at the absolute latest would be you know my deadline there but out to the world you know I’ll put on their December because I didn’t want to kind of overextend myself or make promises I couldn’t keep because I don’t know what the turnaround time is with Amazon and these things I haven’t got into that. You know much research on that side because I’m more focused on just getting things done. But I put December but I’m guessing you know, it’d be more like october november sometime sometime like that were to get there before the holidays. That would probably be the best thing to do because it would make a nice Christmas present. I think you definitely want to time it with that.
The stocking stuffers they start emulating yeah
I’ll request that is so that 50 bourbon stones I have. You know,
I just I never imagined how much I mean, you don’t think about these things like indexing like, you know, like, Fred, someone does your index for you, you know? Yeah, I’m like, I’m gonna have to do that. And like, I started messing with Microsoft Word and I load Microsoft Word. I mean, it’s got a lot of features, but it’s just it sucks the creativity out of you do don’t don’t do indexing. I’ll connect you with someone who will do it. He’s got a great typewriter.
Exactly right. It doesn’t say like we’re getting out of the bounds of even when I even know. Well, thank you for it. I mean, seriously, because I played with it. And I’m like, Oh, my God, I’m gonna kill myself.
It was just not I want to create, you know, on the right. You know, I didn’t do a review this week, because I was so focused on getting all this stuff together. And I love writing reviews. So it really hurt, you know, to have to take that hit this week. So if you’ve got someone that can do that, oh, that would be awesome for you to talk offline about the effect of Bernard stuff. I’m sorry. I’m on you guys.
Good, let’s go on the rails here. So,
so I want to say, you know, David, thank you again for coming on and kind of give us an insight about your book for anybody that’s wanting to help back as Kickstarter. And you know, with the Kickstarter, you get an actual copy of the book too. So you can get that link in the show notes for the podcast as well. But I kind of want to move it on to the next subject in this is where it kind of all happened in some sort of like Twitter spiral. Fred had tweeted about cast finished bourbon jumping the shark. Wade had a tweet about the TTP telling him that you could add flavor and color is so called a bourbon. And my head was about to explode and I said, You know what, let’s just have both of these guys. Come on in and we’ll just put it out there and kind of see who who’s kind of feathers we can rafal if we’re kind of tailing off the wild turkey thing there. So wait, I kind of want to toss it over to you to kind of talk about where where this conversation spiraled out of well, if you haven’t bourbon, or a straight bourbon whiskey
You put it in a secondary task it becomes class type 641 whiskey specialties is no longer class type one on one or 141 which is bourbon or straight bourbon. And the team can you be has a chart that what products by class type can have flavorings added to them. And when you become a whiskey specialty, you’re also allowed to add up to 2.5% harmless color flavoring event blending materials into a product.
So I think that’s what Fred was talking about somewhat is that you can add these flavorings into secondary cast finished products and you don’t have to disclose the fact and then we had a major producer just came out with a
bourbon that had been finished partially in wine cast partially and Sherry cask and they acted like they reinvented bourbon and they were calling the project directly on
The bottling they do have that you know what was done to it? bourbon finished and partially finished but we need people people like us because we’re transparent talk about the product you’re talking about.
Okay, Jim being legend.
So if you go on Twitter and type in legend, every single post, you’ll see me posting the actual cola say no, it’s not bourbon, whiskey specialties.
And this is something you’ve been on for a long time I’ve been I’ve been a lot more kind of just generally, I kinda I liked the category because I liked a lot of taste of them. But I’ve never really liked the fact that bourbon and straight bourbon are on these labels. And
this year at the San Francisco world spirits competition, I think a lot of people know I’m a judge there, and I had the special barrel finish category on my panel.
We’re tasting these I mean it was like one was like over Sherry read one was over ported one had one was like three different wine cask finishes and that none of them had any notice what note whatsoever of a bourbon and and that was a moment for me that
you know where I realized that we’re so far removed away from these things tasting like bourbon as a whole that bourbon should not even be on the labeled for the for a lot of these special barrel finishes. And when we create like a distilled spirits specialty or whiskey specialty that allows them to do a lot of the things that they want to manipulate it to remove it from the the actual flavor profile of the original spirit. I don’t think bourbon should be on that label is you’re starting to see a lot of these independent battlers. A lot of these craft
distillers try to separate themselves in the market. So instead of improving distillate or instead of having a good quality bourbon to begin with, they’re trying to what they do and rum, which is add things to compensate for the lack of quality in the original spirit. And I gotta tell you, it, it has to have people like Booker know and Parker been rolling in their graves because this is the sort of thing that American distillers fought against in the late 1800s. Again in the mid 1900s. Every time there’s ever been an effort to to mess with bourbon distillers have rose up and fought against it. And today, it’s the exact opposite. You’re seeing the larger distillers you know, push for more of these allowances within the within the federal government, and it bothers me, but I’m going to kind of take a different side of that.
You know, we talked to people all the time, every good every that does all the barrel shrink finishes, you’re talking the angel’s envy that Joseph Magnus is in the world, everything like that. And they look at it is, this is this is a new territory, this is a new angle, this is how bourbon is going to go to the next level because there’s new new realms of experimentation. Whiskey is going to go to the next level in their opinion, but it’s not bourbon. You know, we have the path back back 100 years ago in 1909, that basically said we couldn’t had these adult all degraded spirits. And now we’re getting back to, oh, well, let’s add this stuff to bourbon again. So
I know what you’re saying. I know what you guys are saying when when you support the category from a flavor perspective is very good. It’s very exciting. But you know, at some point, we have to protect bourbon. And if we do not then so
Suddenly this has got there’s going to be an allowance of coloring and flavoring to bourbon. And we have to protect that. And that’s all this is about. That’s always talking about that’s all I’m talking about. I love I love the flavor of the angels a lot of the angel’s envy products. I love the flavor of the Magnus products. I’m just coming to a point where you know there were there are people in that category who are taking advantage of it straight up taking advantage of it and adding flavor packets to it, you know, saying oh, well I got a little bit of a this is a pork barrel finish I just happen to have an extra bottle of Port there you know, so that is what people who are getting
getting flanked by those who trying to compensate for shitty quality distillate devil’s advocate not disagreeing but just playing devil’s advocate. So I guess more for waiting and Fred, so they come up with a new category called bourbon, whatever that defines the rules, regulations around how you
can finish a bourbon would that be something you’re open to are now?
I would prefer not to use the word bourbon. Call it whiskey call it American last year called some new name. Well, I’m like read it should be protected bourbon. Yeah, you gotta like bourbon. I think I think what you have is them just not following the laws because I don’t have a problem and it sounds like y’all do but personally I don’t have a problem if they call it Kentucky bourbon finished in whatever barrels but I just pulled this bottle and it says a truly unique bourbon. That’s not abiding by the TTP standards. And now on the bottom it says Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey and then a line below it partially finished in wine and share cast. So with that wording, I would have a problem with it. But I think it’s you know, for me, I don’t have an issue with it saying, you know, bourbon finished in whatever cast because that’s what it is. You know, it’s
pending that they always do that.
That those they start marketing efforts where they’re just calling it bourbon and leaving off what was done to it confuses the lines and that’s what Jim Beam is doing with this product. But interesting I contacted the TTP specifically about this Jim Beam legend product and as the compliance officer at Texas because I have 14 distillers that look to me the same what can we do own labels what’s allowed? Wait, America, America looks to you know,
again, I want to make sure that the products they’re putting out a fully compliant with all the laws and someone we’re making some of these products. And so I sent the TT Did you know, direct question, you know, is this Jim Beam label fully compliant with the TTP laws and they basically came back and said, this label is compliant. So the TTP doesn’t seem to have any problem with Jim been calling this product, a unique bourbon. Well, I don’t know. I don’t think I’ve never met.
Go ahead. Sorry. But no, I was just I was
I agree with Blake on the bourbon finished in but my devil’s advocate question for Fred is
it’s it’s a subjective question to say when a bourbon finished in whatever kind of barrel no longer has the attributes of bourbon
so how do you how do you govern that
you know I just a bright line know finished it’s finished it can’t call a bourbon now again I’m not opposed to finishes and I’m not even really opposed to having you know bourbon necessarily on the label. But is it when is it the one is it the main one it’s the main word on the label versus an amplified word. I think that it really where you know where we’re getting here’s here’s the thing with with whiskey distillers really human nature’s you give someone an inch, and they’re going to take a mile
No, and that is where we are. I can’t I can’t remember who
What the brand was when I found out what it was, but it was finished in like three or four different tasks, and it was still in, you know, it’s still on the shelf as a bourbon. You know, angel’s envy is in one casks, whatever you think of them there in one cask makers 46. It’s, it’s one style, it’s got French oak stays inserted, but we start getting past one barrel. I mean that that that’s that is where people will start taking advantage of it. And then you’re going to get into Celera. And you’re going to get into all these other things that the Steelers are going to try to do to take advantage of it to stand out and to have used their marketing tools. You know, to get a very clickbait headline that will run rampant on something like men’s health or gear patrol or Forbes or wherever. And that’s that and I’m just telling you from a pure like readability standpoint, that Jim Beam story is all over the place. It is
All over the place and like what is what is drawing IR from Wade and a lot of other people is that fact that it continues to be called bourbon and, and being so different and it’s getting put in that same kind of like innovation innovation bucket, as
you know, something like sweet mash, you know, and no one cares about sweet mashing. But to me that’s innovation for bourbon. You know, to me that is real innovation. You know, the barrel finishes I again, I love the category. I love so much of the flavor of it. But we’re getting out of hand and I just know in ROM, it’s a shit show. You know, they say it’s a hilarious system. They’re not Celera. Well, I mean, the other thing is, is that when we’re talking about these finish, Cass you all are no better than me. But I don’t think there’s a law or anything that states about how empty a certain cast must be, or how dry or how how age it has to be until days. I mean,
Could have six bottles of rum left in there or seller or Porter Sherry, it could have a few drops. There’s there’s nothing to say.
rebuild their barrels and then they refill them to write and that’s how.
Yeah, exactly. Again, that’s also what they doing wrong and and you know there’s there’s nothing wrong with that for for like creating a whiskey and another thing weight is something that is, is is of growth right now our blends we’re seeing a lot of blends of various types of burdens. And you know, and this is this is another area where people can slip in a little bit. You don’t see blend of straights, you know, what are you getting? So there’s just there’s just a lot of things where there’s this incredible
I feel like taking advantage of an eager populace to drink bourbon.
Not to cut you off or but you know, it’s funny the whole time we’re having this conversation. So I think it’s almost like the very front line has already been last a long time ago and where I think we’ll take like wild turkey honey or Jam Jam stack or anything like that. So and I talked to a lot of people who don’t normally drink whiskey or bourbon, right? Let’s say, Oh, I had this really good bourbon was like cherry flavored, or I had this really good honey bourbon. I’m always like, oh, and I start to explain to them and they’re like, Uh huh. So do you drink that bourbon? And it just goes right over their head, right. Like, the big distilleries. They won that battle A long time ago, because in their minds, people are reading the label. They’re already especially with the brand. Yeah, right. And that’s not even bourbon begin with. It’s just a blend of the corn inverted right now. You know, they last a long time ago. Well, I think one thing we’re seeing you ask how the how these products can be compliant with the TTP. If you exceed 2.5% and these flavorings, you would technically have to call it a flavored whiskey. We don’t know how much product is in these cast when they add it in. So actually
Lot of these products get measured on time. Typically, they’re probably exceeding that 2.5% level that’s allowed by law to be added to it. So a lot of these products, especially when you start doing multiple casts, like Fred was talking about, they’re probably exceed the 2.5% and probably legally should be called flavored whiskies. Wait, I have a question. Is there a definition for cask? I mean, what’s the cask? Does it have to be a certain defined barrel? Or can it just be a wooden box mean? What’s a cast? It may change soon.
I mean, what’s a cask now? legally? There is no legal definition for you go. Matter of fact, in the TTP regulations, they call it an oak container. They never even say barrel or carrel cast, they call it containers, but they’re changing that container finished whiskey.
Jefferson ocean So wait, wait. I’m curious what your
Think of this My belief is that if if, if the buck if it stopped with like something as simple as like angel’s envy, I don’t think we’re having this conversation. And we were, I really respect what angel’s envy has done, because they never they always are always very transparent that you know, there they are bourbon finished, bourbon finish rye finished and done but I mean, I don’t know. I mean Bourbons bourbon by itself. That’s the way and I think English stuff should be whiskey. That’s just my opinion. Like, maybe I’m too old school because I grew up around it but why not in something man, just bourbon bourbon. You know, right. If you do that, we’d have to have like a whole spin off show of called like whiskey finished in podcast pursuit. You know? It works. Well.
Don’t do it.
You know, but you know, as as we look at what the future is all right, so it things are taking off, and people are getting more influence, you know, throughout the, throughout the consumer base throughout the, the governance. And you know, what does that look like in 10 years, we’ve seen what this looks like now after really a 10 year explosion of barrel finishes. If in 10 years, this continues to escalate,
it is going to be a shit show and bourbon will be damaged. If we hold the line on what is bourbon. And if they would have stopped with angel’s envy, we wouldn’t have a problem. If they would have stopped at that style. We wouldn’t have a problem but it didn’t.
So I guess to kind of wrap this segment up if there’s a call to action for bourbon consumers out there, Fred Wade, like what is what is that action that somebody should take?
Well, my saying is, if it’s not straight, you must debate
He’s been he’s been teaching that one of
the next t shirts come
to bottled in bond because that’s not getting messed with that’s
that’s even even more that’s straight plus face well shit Brian then you’re only going to have like 12 whiskies in your bar
you think bottled in bond is not getting mess with I my latest blog posts talks about a bottle and broad product really crossing the line and got over the world.
Damn cannot ride a way we reached out the way for pursuit spirits.
One more thing on this topic though, if people do like these finish whiskies, I did a little experiment recently of trying to make my own at home by just adding a little port or a little Sherry or a little grandma or gay directly to the bottom.
And let them married for 30 days and had a panel of 11 blind tasters taste my version versus the commercial versions and two out of the three my versions one easily hand down. So you can make these products at home by starting with a good straight bourbon base. I get a couple of things. One bottled in bond from a label labeling perspective is starting to be
you know, kind of mess with whistle pig has a bottled and barn. So you see, you see something like that that’s out there. So we’ve seen flavored whiskies make it through the TTP as bottled in bond. So bottom the bond is absolutely You know, it can be
you know, penetrated and and i look at I always go back to ROM when we talk about this, take a look at the state of affairs ROM ROM is a there’s not many really genuine pure producers left
So if you want if you want bourbon to turn into that, then let’s just, you know, let let this continue to go buy more live legend.
Absolutely. Well, I mean, I think we, we definitely came away with some some learnings here. So anybody that’s out there, make sure you are you’re reading the labels, you know what you’re buying, and you make sure you’re looking at a lot of these guys blog posts because they go in depth and you’ll be smarter because of the
bourbon pursuit wouldn’t be possible without the support of our Patreon community, and with help of our following partners.
You listen to podcast, so you know that there’s more craft distilleries popping up around the country now more than ever, but how do you find out the best stories and the best flavors? That’s why we’ve partnered with rock house whiskey club. It’s a whiskey of the Month Club who’s on a mission to uncover not only just the best flavors, but those stories that you want to hear
From craft distilleries across the US, rack houses box ship out every two months to 40 states and rack houses April box there featuring a distillery that was located inside a former North Carolina prison. Whiskey prison, home to Southern grace distilleries. It’s the prison you’d want to break into. Rock house whiskey club is shipping out two bottles from Southern grace distilleries including it’s double gold award winning conviction small batch bourbon, which is the first bourbon ever to legally be age behind bars, go to rock house whiskey club. com to check it out and try bottle of conviction today. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box.
But next I kind of want to talk about sort of the hype train that continues to build just around limited editions and everything like that. And that was because this past week in Kentucky there was the last edition of the Kentucky Wildcats Maker’s Mark limited edition a release and makers
Mark does one of these every single year it’s it’s usually in the Kentucky, Southern Indiana surrounding areas, they’ll make somewhere between 12,000 to 20,000 of these bottles. And of course, there’s just people lined up around the liquor barns and total wines and other stores and the cost goes, and I look at this and I try to view it from a retail standpoint. And I’m kind of curious and kind of look at you all. Is this thing, the greatest scam that’s ever been invented? Because it seems like retailers just make so much money over doing nothing like they can just sell a bottle like that in an instant. Kentucky fans will buy anything
goes more than just that. I think makers has this down to a science mean they’ve been not just Kentucky but they do. They’ve been doing this for years. It’s like all right, what sports in one let’s roll out the red white or red wax. Let’s roll out the different colored wax. Let’s slap it on there and people go gaga for it. Right I mean, including
the RNC and the DNC convention.
Two years ago
I’ve been doing that for a long time to rock the boat bottles for sure.
Yeah, Jordan, art. Yeah, there’s a long tradition of that. Right. You know, with all the decanters and everything from years past that the distilleries would put out. Maker’s Mark seems to be the only one who continues to keep it a long living tradition and yeah, I mean you know, I guess if you see it on the shelf in your dad kind of like bourbon and there’s my sports team on there Okay, I’ll buy it you know, it’s well but I thought you bring up a good point blank, but those decanters were when bourbon really wasn’t selling so people are going more from the higher they are in the bourbon right makers money and people are buying bourbon left and right now but they’re still rocking it out but people people love it. I mean, you know and and so like about like to justify bottles, those things just sell out automatically, where now they just they have the market cornered because if Buffalo Trace comes out with a Kentucky Wildcats bottle, everyone’s like, hold on a second. Somebody else
But you know but it just expects that maker so
it would be question that I see is that this these newbies out there thank you these are special edition that there’s some kind of special bourbon in the in the glass
it’s all 12 year old Maker’s Mark everybody
know that the over over Maker’s Mark
This is what overload tastes like it’s pretty good
10 years could you release this
suckers and kept buying them for a while and then I realized that that’s the same juices I just started using them as mixers like
bars like here you go but i think i mean i think certain brands right so you got makers but Woodford doesn’t work there during bottle right? Yeah, we’ll go guy off for that. I think each brand has their niche and they
who was it Secretary that for? Oh yeah, that was
That was that was good
that Secretary one Penny Chenery the owner secretary, it out that was that was one of the coolest experiences of my career was pick a whooping with her when she picked up on but these things are you know we can bitch about a lot of different things but this is a little bit to me of the spirit of just having some fun. You know it is what it is they’ve been doing it for a long time. It brings in outside outsiders interested into to the category. It gets new, you know new fan bases excited. I like it. Most people don’t open the bottles you know.
the last one I tried open was the Astros World Series bottle I had to take a blowtorch to.
Pretty sure somebody out here wanted a beam
Comes bottle and it came out just to the right
there you go. I’ve worked hard to get
I mean they could put just colored water in there and No One
No One No one else is saying it’s kind of like you know we talked about it on community around table in the past of having a sign bottle. You’re like well do I really want to open a book open up a bottle it’s been signed it’s like now you know I’ll just open up something else so all those things just gonna sit on the shelf it’s gonna be a cool decoration. I opened my son bottles so do i do yeah, you really are rare bird
just said he just sent me up so well.
Funny pitch right there.
Really is a night which bottle will they be making?
UVA Yeah, Texas Tech battle. Who knows? marketing. It’s just marketing though. I mean it
It’s not I mean it none of the juiciest are really being like you know enticed by these it’s it’s more for the you know the mass public that enjoys makers and beam and it’s just I don’t see anything wrong with it personally I think it’s a smart move on their part makers has always had great marketing as kind of their thing you know cheers with him for doing it you know
maker says a really big collector seen as well right i mean there’s there’s guys who just have you know Brian Brian and
there’s another guy but they you know they have hundreds of these bottles they buy every single one so you know get feed the audience as well which is pretty cool. Almost spent $200 on the Jaguars Makers Mark bottle one time from the AFC know what they did it for wasn’t AFC Championship but but you did that because you were a sports fan? Yeah, no.
He did that background. He was playing
For now through me a touchdown the light was on the bottle my really about to pay $200 for Makers Mark
Alright, so I want to kind of just dovetail this into the the last topic tonight and this is again going to be more across on the retail side because I kind of pitch that one is kind of a build up because I look at it in a way that oh it’s going to sell no matter what you know, it’s it’s limited blah blah blah even if it’s not limited with 20,000 bottles in one state and you’re only targeting us a sports team. It’s still going to sell out no matter what. But then we start looking at some things when it comes to something we all love and talk about which is barrel pics and barrel selections. And there’s some some retailers out there that they don’t care about what’s inside the bottle. They will get a barrel sample or they’ll get a phone call and they say hey, we’ve got three barrels. We’ve got a nine, nine year nine and a half year and a 10 years ago. I just will take the 10 year old doesn’t matter like littles will take it because it’s age and that’s what sells
So when so what do you all kind of think of this? Like, do you think that in this sort of this today’s market that Yeah, age is going to sell a product? It doesn’t matter what it tastes like or anything like that. You got a four roses. That’s 10 years 10 and a half years old, it’s going to sell no problem.
I mean, it just does or sorry, go ahead, Ryan. Oh, no. Well,
I won’t say where we were and who this was for. But when Kenny and our two barrel cake recently, the master distiller we went through 10 barrels, and he picked why they go, Well,
this has gone to such and such store and we’re like, that one sucks or something. He was like, well, they won’t care.
Like along those lines, and so it’s like, just always make sure where you’re buying stuff. You know, who’s taking the barrels, because a lot of times they’re out there and they’re just like, what’s going to who they’re not here I send them this one, you know, so that’s my just take on it. Well, I think I forget who it
Was but they’re talking about you know the difference between group pics and store pics is a pretty big thing or just trusting the store that’s picking it you know we we had that experience that when we did our VCR Buffalo Trace pick there were a couple barrels and there were like this just isn’t very good. And we’re like you know how what happens these barrels It was like well somebody is going to eventually get these and you know it’s just a store who says yeah, give me whatever it’s going to sell out no matter what so it’s another one of those things where it gets like hyped up hyped up all you got to get store pics you got to get store pics, and then all of a sudden just garbage starts flowing into store pics as well. Now it’s like okay, you gotta trust who’s actually picking these because otherwise you’re going to end up with something that’s worse than just what you would find on the shelf.
people our age trap, you know,
for for something with a big age on it up. I’ll be honest with you like with knob Creek pics. The 1314 year pics are just not my
thing. Um, I mean, I like a more around the nine year mark from the ones I’ve tasted. Maybe that’s just a personal preference.
But like with Russell’s reserve, I recently had a pic from Justin’s House of bourbon. And I was like,
This is amazing. I mean, the finish was a little short, but the nose and the palette was amazing. And I found that it was just barely cracking eight years and I was like, really, and it was from Camp Nelson F, which it from my experience has been very spicy. A lot of draw spice and heat. And this one was real fruity. It was very kind of almost like four roses, like like OBS or something. And I was like, this is just incredible. And he was like, Yeah, man, it was just it was barely eight years. I was worried you wouldn’t like it. I’m like, I love this thing. And so you can’t really go I didn’t know what the age was going into it. And you can’t just assume that because it’s got double digits that it’s going to be good on that is not true. Um, there are plenty of eight nine year picks out there have a various you know, four roses, Jim Beam, whatever that
Excellent so don’t go by age but a lot of people fall for the trap 14 year knob Creek, you know gotta get it now you know, it’s like I don’t know you might want to taste it first you know? Yeah, totally agree. Yes Do they trust you they trust who’s doing the pics you fall for the age age and they also fall for the proof a lot to right so you’ll see the same thing it’s like oh, it’s high proof that’s just as I’ll get the highest proof or short barrel Oh, short barrel God. Exactly. Right. So you know,
it goes right back to what Brandi said. We got to know the people picking it. Right and just find a flavor profile of somebody else that has a similar you know, tastes as you do and just trust them. Yeah, so elixir spirits here commented in the chat and said it happens quite often. He had an eight year 11 month old SK he took delivery on over a 12 year OBS f however, the SK took one and a half years to sell versus the 12 year which only took six months. So yeah, I think it really boils down to people have this idea of of age statements when they go in and they don’t really care.
Even said He even told customers that the sky tasted better too. So that just goes, Yeah, and people still buy it. And I think I think this is sort of the thing that we’re starting to see. And and what I’m starting to see with some of the the retailers is that they don’t they don’t care about going and tasting it. They’re just like, sure, just get the highest age put in a bottle, it’s going to sell no matter what.
You don’t see age statements on every other thing. So you’re like, I think people get excited when they see like a higher age on something. Because your age statements are gone now. So that might be why Well, I think a little bit of this to you know, you’re starting to see this is you know, we’re talking about this but there’s another coin to this is that the distillers are going to the distributors and saying, if you guys don’t take this barrel, you’re sending us a clear message. These rate retailers are not necessarily doing this by choice mean Yes, they are.
selling it but a lot of the bigger ones, you know, they’re trying to keep that they’re trying to keep their applications and their guys still go in there and get the sweet honey barrels. But they do take on a load that you know that maybe old forester doesn’t want a knob Creek doesn’t want, you know, doesn’t have like a group coming in and selecting them. So it’s not necessarily always the retailer’s best interest to say no to these larger distillers who are dictating who is getting barrels right now, right? Yep, everybody’s on the chopping block. So you got to just take it take what you can get
retailer here in Houston that they liked to have store pics, but not with their particular name on it. So they want some kind of designations. I’m going to stick around the bottle and it was a private barrel pick. But in case it’s bad, they don’t really want to have their name on the bottom.
I guess you aged storks sword because you know then people love it. You don’t even get to play
It is the greatest thing ever. Yeah, it’s when you have some side stickers.
Of course I go around that stores and randomly throw a little stickers out on that looks like a private barrel.
Just just help them run through
a bunch of unicorn stickers you know just
a unicorn that’s that’s probably the next good prank that you could probably pull next year April Fools just go to total wine and just start putting stickers on everything and just see what a few pictures out there and just watch people start running.
I bet the retailers would actually like that because like social media traction for them.
Absolutely. Yeah, press is good press. Good deal. So that’s gonna that’s gonna wrap it up for tonight’s episode. I want to say thank you everybody for joining us whether you’re live watching us through the chat and then also
Thank you to everybody here on the panel that joined us. So Ryan Fred thank you again I’m kind of want to go around the around the horn one more time to let people give an opportunity to do say where you blog and Yeah, kind of start closing it out. So Blake, we’ll start with you, buddy. Yeah,
I’m Blake from bourbon or calm always great to be on here. Good to be back in the full aspect and not just a quick drop in so you can find me on Instagram Twitter, Facebook, do you are Bo and are also check out? seal box calm. That’s s e ll be a CH s. We specialize in craft spirits. So check it out. Yeah, thanks for having me guys. Get all your bourbon delivered right to your door. Whether it’s finishing a cask or not, it’s still good.
All kinds of all kinds.
We can Yeah, whatever you want, you know, a lot of
new roof. Just a barrel landed last week. So that was that was a big one. It’s already gone. So your YouTube like
You can get some of the other numerous stuff if you’d like.
Good deal Brian. Go ahead, go next. Alright, thanks. Thanks for having me on again, Brian with sipping corn and you can find the sipping corn calm and bourbon justice comm check it out on Amazon and through the comics website.
Good deal Jordan. You’re up next buddy. This is Jordan one of the three guys from breaking bourbon. You can find us on social media at breaking bourbon along with Patreon. This is the site for our daily updates or at least calor along with our in depth reviews.
Good deal, and we’ll just keep going in order we had before. So Wade, you’re up next. Yes. My blog is Tater. hyphen, talk calm. Or for the folks that are listening in Texas. They might want to check out Texas with e.org
There we go. Big things happening in Texas. All right. Always, always, always big things.
And David, go ahead.
All right, well, if you want to read some wild turkey reviews, get a rare bird one or one.com. You can find me on Instagram at rare bird one to one, you can find me on Twitter at our bird, one to one.
And of course I’m on Patreon patreon.com slash we’re bird one on one. And I have a Kickstarter as you probably heard about a book I’ve written about wild turkey. And I want to thank all my Patreon supporters, and the people that have pledged on Kickstarter and all my followers and readers and last but certainly certainly not least, thank you, Fred. Thank you for talking with me and guide me through this process and being so supportive. Appreciate it and I hope that everyone recognizes that you know, as passionate as I as I am about Wild Turkey, bread is passionate about bourbon, so thank you.
Good thing you’re talking about Fred there because I was about to pull like a Bob Barker like the wheels, the wheels.
trying hard for that bourbon plus,
discount. I gotta get that discount now.
You have private jet ads in there?
Absolutely. And so make sure you’re following course bourbon pursuit on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. You’re also following Fred Minnick at all those different channels and supporting Of course, bourbon plus there as well. Right? Go ahead and close it out for us, buddy. Uber bus now. Thanks, guys for joining us as always, this is the shortest whenever I guess there’s something going on tonight or something.
appreciate everyone. I’m a super excited for the rare bird Dave Jennings book. I’m super pumped. So please support that because I think it’s going to be a great addition to anyone’s bourbon library. But uh, Anyways, thanks, everyone, I guess go Cavs? I don’t know. I mean,
so. I don’t know. Yeah. We’ll see what happens. Yep.
Well, with that, thank you, everybody, and we see you all next week. Cheers, bears.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai