Can you name all the distilleries in Lawrenceburg? How is it possible that a straight bourbon is only 70 proof? Wade Woodard, blogger at tater-talk.com and witty comedic relief on Facebook forums, leads us through a series of bourbon brain teasers to see if we really know our stuff. Wade is an advocate for bourbon laws and makes sure that everyone is playing by the rules so he knows them inside and out. Listen to see if we get stumped and see if you can answer the questions before we can.

Show Notes:

• None! Because I want you to listen and try to guess the answers for yourself!

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Blending is an art. We’ve discussed it many times before and our guest today would be considered the Queen. She provides Nosing Services, meaning she is a blood hound in human form. Listen about Nancy Fraley‘s past and how she has carved a path as one of the world’s best blenders for whiskey, rum, armagnac, and many different spirits. In the second segment of the show, we talk about her current role at Joseph A. Magnus & Co and how she mirrored the current distribution to one that was found in a family closet from pre-prohibition as well as her exploration in the Jos. A. Magnus Cigar Blend!

Show Notes:

• This is the second Master Blender we’ve had on the show. Back on Episode 103 we featured Drew Mayville. If you didn’t get a chance to listen to it, you really should. It’s an impossible decision to wonder if the master distiller or the master blender is the real star of the show.
• Our guest today is renowned in the industry and gets the ever so attractive nickname “the nose”.
• Lets talk about you for a bit. Do you remember your first experience with whiskey or bourbon?
• Talk about your education and how you got your nick name
• When did you realize you could start a business with this?
• What do you do when you get a head cold?
• So you currently freelance for many big names in the industry as well as craft distilleries out there. What services are you offering for many of these places?
• What are some of the most common mistakes distillers make?
• Talk me through nosing new make or white dog and how you can criticize or tweak it because in my opinion it’s damn near impossible. are there certain aromas?
• Any examples of when you can sense something is wrong and how to fix it?
• What’s the worst case you came across and had to salvage something. We can keep the names innocent, but what went wrong?
• What else besides whiskey do you consult in?
• I read somewhere you’re a big fan of armagnac.
• Do you use the same method for judging different spirits or is there a playbook for each one?
• Lots of craft distilleries are looking at you to help perfect their products.
• How does you determine the amount of each different whiskey that goes into a blend? Does that always translate when your mixing small amounts in a lab then try to use the same percentages on a batch from barrels?
• Lots of people do home blending with after market products. Perhaps it’s something as simple as an infinity bottle where you take the last ounce or two from every bottle and put it in a decanter, and others that buy these small 1 gallon barrels. Is there any recipe or formula you use to know what should go into a blend?
• Do you find it odd or interesting that distilleries don’t do limited edition blendings with barrels from each respective distiller to form a collaboration?
• Talk about Jos A Magnus and what you are doing there
• I’ve got access to the single barrels as well as some of the infamous Cigar blend finishes. I want you to talk me through your involvement with single barrels, the standard Magnus release, Murray Hill, and we’ll finish it off with Cigar Blend
• Do you see barrel finishes as the future of the industry?

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We have a loaded show today with some hot topics hitting the boards. This episode touches on recent releases of NEAT, the less than stellar James Thompson & Brother incredibly overaged bourbon made its way out, we discuss the practices by Pennsylvania liquor control board setting lottery prices at secondary prices, thoughts on the new Old Fitzgerald release, we wonder if NDPs sourced from MGP being $100 is the new norm, and Kenny gets snobby a bit.

Show Notes:

• What are your initial thoughts on the new release of NEAT at thebourbonfilm.com?
• We’ve got our own bourbon film come out. You will love the cheesy graphics. It’s fun to watch.
• There was release for James Thompson & Brother Final Reserve 45 year old bourbon here in Louisville. 250 total bottles. only 150 to the public. It was $1800 + tax. People camped out in the rain. First few sold and then the reviews came out. It’s terrible. What’s the likely future outcome for pricing of this bourbon? and the subsequent 43 and 41 year old releases?
• The Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board admitting that it’s pricing Booker’s Rye with secondary in their online lottery. This is state run. Is this legal? What’s to make of this?
• Heaven Hill is releasing their Old Fitzgerald BIB Decanter at $100. Will you be buying it? What will happen to the bottom shelf Old Fitz?
• Are $100 NDP MGPs the new norm? We used to scuff at this like 2 years ago saying you wouldn’t pay these prices for something you knew was made in Indiana. Now with things like Mic.Drop. people are doing it. And keep in perspective that GTS is only $89.
• Is it a problem with hype?
• What’s the next SAOS
• MGP be the new stitzel weller…all these up and coming distilleries are going to switch to their own distillate and their mgp bottlings will become more valuable
• Is it worth buying bottles over $50 now?
• What’s up with all the Wathen’s Barrel Proof recently? When did this become a sought after item? Because it’s barrel proof? a single barrel pick? Wathen’s has been around forever but just now became something that continually shows up on my feed.
• How about an additional topic: Blake hates Single barrel bourbons…thoughts?

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He might be the angriest man in bourbon and ruffles a lot of feathers along the way, but he’s been enjoying the spirit longer than most of us. Bourbon Truth, or known as Lloyd Christmas on twitter, is well known for his jabs at the industry. In this episode, we talk about his disdain for shelf trophies, if the current market is overinflated, his opinion on how spirit awards are rigged, and even touch on apple brandy. He’s back with another no non-sense episode about the harsh reality we often overlook.

Show Notes:

• Also appeared on Episode 094
• How has bourbon changed since we last talked?
• How dumb are people getting that they are buying partial bottles?
• What are your thoughts on WhistlePig and their pricing strategy?
• What bottles are collectibles for you?
• You said that you hate people that buy bottles as investments but it actually worked out for you.
• Do you think you sold your collection too early?
• Are prices just at the top ?
• Are unicorns going to go up?
• What are some of those bottles you would sell already open?
• You mentioned KY Owl and it’s pricing, do you see that as a long term investment for that particular brand after their Stoli funding?
• Why do you think people feel the need to sell half-open bottles?
• You had a funny tweet that said “Reviewers have so many different ways of saying ‘the booze sucks'”
• The Whiskey Advocate changed their whiskey review system with their original score and panel score so it’s flawed.
• Are those spirit awards just BS now? Because the most favorited spirits don’t enter anymore
• Is the problem that they are sending single barrels or limited expressions most people won’t have access to?
• What do you see as the movement of craft? Are bad ones ruining the reputation for the majority of them?
• Are you jumping on the rum train too?
• We haven’t heard people talk about brandy much
• How bad has Van Winkle quality gone down in recent years?
• Allocations are becoming very scandalous

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• First let’s give an overview of the company and then we will dive into the history.
• So do yo know about the history of storing barrels before the idea of rick houses?
• There’s all different kinds of ways to store barrels. But you all are pretty much renowned for it. Talk about how that came to be.
• Why wood?
• Talk about the design of the rick itself
• Why is your design better than pallet? More economical? Does it make it easier to move barrels in and out?
• Is a rackhouse made to survive acts of nature?
• What sort of maintenance is involved?
• You also have a patented process, right?
• Give us the basic idea of why a rick house is constructed the way it is
• What man power is involved? I hear you all have a machine that is beginning to automate a bit?
• How long to get one stood up?
• What’s the sustained weight?
• Why is there hardly ever electricity ran to these?
• Do people ask for other amenities like running water?
• How has the engineering of the construction changed over the years or are they just getting bigger?

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We revisit with Kyle Henderson to talk about the past and current production of Angel’s Envy with their new distillery and all the decisions and mistakes that came along with it. Kyle has a great excuse to build a bunker with “competitive tasting” that has amassed him over 1600 bottles of spirits and now he’s getting into barrel aged beers and cigars. Kyle hints at a future of bottled-in-bond Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey and putting an end to their sourced whiskey years down the road. What else is in their future? Listen and find out!

Show Notes:

• Kyle, You haven’t been back on the show since episode 13 back in May of 2015. Before we dive into what’s new, talk about you again for a moment.
• How you came up in the ranks, became a part of the family lineage, etc?
• You’re also not a newbie to the bourbon scene. I know you have quite a collection so talk about that too.
• How has your role changed now that this distillery is up and running?
• Now that you have your own distillery, could we see an Angel’s Envy Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey?
• That’s no where near the amount needed for sustaining supply of your product so sourcing is still a big means. Is there a future plan to cut off sourcing?
• What has it taken for you to get up to speed to now understand distillation as well as outgrowing the co-packer?
• Did you all have input on the design of your stills?
• Talk about on-boarding and finding the right people
• Talk about clocking barrels real quick
• What was the benefit of the Bacardi buy out?
• How many barrels are you pumping out a day?
• That’s no where near the amount needed for sustaining supply of your product so sourcing is still a big means. Is there a future plan to cut off sourcing?

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Everyone has a different strategy when it comes to picking barrels and we talk about each of ours. We also touch on the topic of a “group pick” versus a “store pick” when something is selected by the Master Distiller. Crown Royal Bourbon Mash has violated the TTB, but does the TTB even care? Why are consumers still regulating this? And we talk about bourbon FOMO and the ridiculous amount of people around the country that have Blanton’s scarcity, where did it all go? But more importantly, who cares?

Show Notes:

• We picked our first barrel together. Let’s talk about the process a bit more.
• Everyone has a different strategy
• Blake can you give your tasting notes on it
• Video will be posted on perfectpourtv.com in the future
• Everyone passed on barrel #6 but someone will eventually take that barrel. Or do you think that goes to stores who don’t select and ask the Master Distiller to pick on for them?
• Wade Woodard who has started his new blog at tater-talk.com had an article called Diageo done screwed up. He talked about the Crown Royal Bourbon Mashbill release we discussed in the roundtable. Wade is a consumer advocate and whiskey law sleuth and discovered they are in violation. Can you take any guesses to what this product will be called after the 1 year period is over?
• Why are consumers still the ones doing all the legal hurdles? Does the TTB not care? Does it really matter at the end of the day since it’s not a real crime?
• OKI announced the end of their line with a bunch of 12 year barrels being dumped soon but people are cleaning out shelves. In addition, the standard Old Scout is being cleared too. Not even store picks. Is there a panic mode being set in right now?
• People are continually complaining about finding Blanton’s. Is it just me or does regular Blanton’s not do it for you all anymore?
• Is Buffalo Trace manufacturing demand?
• Thanks to Blake from bourbonr.com, Nick and Jordan from BreakingBourbon.com, and Brian Harra from Sippncorn.blogspot.com
• Listen to all the Bourbon Community Roundtables

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Many seasoned bourbon drinkers know all too well the climate of things, but rarely ever stop to think how newcomers to this hobby view it. This episode takes an outside look in from experimenting with high rye, low rye, and wheated bourbons as well as a look into how our guest views allocated items. Darin Mellor, a spirits enthusiast, has been on the beer and tequila chase in the past and recently got into bourbon. Learn about his journey into the crazy hobby that can be very frustrating at times.

Show Notes:

• What first attracted you to bourbon?
• Talk about the tequila and beer chase for a bit.
• Before you started really getting into it, was there anything that made you anxious or nervous?
• What made you want to know more?
• How did you start exploring high rye vs low rye vs wheated bourbon?
• Did you even know these different kind of bourbons existed before you dove in?
• What made you go with something barrel proof when you first started getting your few bottles?
• Being new to the scene, what’s your take on non-distilling producers?
• When you go to a store and see a hangtag or sticker that says “Won Double Gold”, does that influence your decision?
• How did you come to find out about Facebook groups or reddit?
• What was the most surprising thing you saw when you started reading more into bourbon?
• It took me almost 6 years until I found out about limited edition bourbons. How did you find out?
• Am I creating the problem or are new bourbon drinkers the problem when it comes to the allocation issue?
• So talk about your first reactions when you see an acronym like WLW. Are you like what the hell are these guys talking about?
• Now that you are getting into the bourbon scene, what’s the most frustrating part?
• What advice can you give to seasoned veterans of bourbon when all the new people are coming into the hobby?
• Are you surprised people are waiting in lines and lotteries for bourbon?
• Have you found yourself sneaking bottles in the house from your significant other?
• You can read more about Darin at mempxl and on Instagram at @mempxl

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The grain to glass movement isn’t new, but it’s a way for brands to differentiate themselves as they have complete control of the distillation process from all locally sourced products. It sparks pride in your area and builds relationships across the process until it hits the consumer. Ryan Burchett, Co-Owner and Distiller at Mississippi River Distilling Company, joins the show to talk about new experiments are happening from partnering with other distilleries and how the wood effecting the barrel is the next frontier for unique concepts and spirits.

Show Notes:

• Ryan, let’s talk about you for a minute. Talk about your background and if you grew up around spirits.
• How old are you and your brother? When did you get the bug to really dive into this venture?
• Your known as one of the bourbon brothers that changed prohibition-era state law in Iowa, so talk about the history of Iowa and the meaning behind this title.
• Before we dive into it, give us an overview of Mississippi River Distilling Company
• Talk about the origins and how the name Mississippi River came to be or did you look out your office window and saw the Mississippi River and said “that’s it!”
• So the whole grain to glass thing is something we hear very often now. It’s almost counterintuitive to what some of the big titans in the industry do. They feel that sourcing the best grains are the most efficient way to create a quality product, no matter the distance. But they also have to buy from multiple farms for the same grain. So talk about your view of having grain to glass distillation and what it brings.
• Talk about some of the brands and spirits you all are doing.
• Ok what’s an “artisan spirit”? I’m intrigued
• Let’s be honest, you’re on a bourbon podcast but do you have a particular spirit you enjoy distilling more than it?
• What states are your products distributed so our listeners can be on the lookout?
• Talk about the tours and what’s unique?
• Talk about Iowa for a bit. You’re our first guest from this state so what’s bourbon growth been like in regards to the market?
• You started this 5-7 years ago – How has your own operation grown from where it started?
• How many barrels are you aging? You’ve got a lot of experimental barrels going on but what is your primary age you shoot for in your bourbon whiskey? Size of barrels being used? Where do you get your barrels?
• Where are you located so people can visit you and some social media locations to learn more about you

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What happens when you get Bill Samuels, Mike Veach, Reid Mitenbuler, and Susan Reigler in front of an economics class? You talk about the growth of bourbon, the economic impact of it, and how to get jumpstarted into a career. Thanks to the John H. Schnatter Center for Free Enterprise at the College of Business, University of Louisville for hosting and allowing us to record. This event is just one of a series of events on the bourbon industry in the college this semester . The bourbon theme included an economics reading group which read and met to discuss Reid’s book. They also took field trips to Buffalo Trace and Peerless distilling. In addition, the economics senior capstone class is focused on the economic history and importance of the industry. Students in the class are writing a variety of research papers on the bourbon industry for their senior projects.

Show Notes:

• We will first attempt to wrap our heads around the size of the boom
• What consumer and federal or state-level regulatory trends might be facilitating the recent resurgence.
• We will be considering the economic impact on KY, including investment, job creation, tourism, and exports. I’ll have the panelists dwell on the recent investment announcements by BBC, Lux Row, Stoli, and Heaven Hill plus the revival of whiskey row (Old Forester, Michter’s, and, by extension, Peerless, Angel’s Envy, Rabbit Hole, and so on).
• What about the marketing strategy of old brands and distilleries being brought back from the dead (Peerless, Kentucky Owl, and Old Taylor/Castle & Key).
• Given it is fall release season, discuss the surging popularity of the boutique brands from the big distillers and the associated retail price increases, shortages, production timelines, and the “ethics” of the secondary market.
• What is your opinion on the future? Can the boom last and what opportunities are out there for UofL students interested in the industry?

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The community did a pretty quick 180 in regards to treating people more fairly in facebook groups. We discuss how banning unopened bottles has settled the drama and also evaluate the definition of the new vintage spirits law that has passed in Kentucky. Taking a speculative look at the success and if it has the potential to go mainstream across the country. Lastly, we wrap it up talking about our favorite wheated bourbons of all time.

Show Notes

• Blake are you going to be coming out with a whiskey inspired cookbook?
• It is now (as of Jan 1) legal in Kentucky for people to sell their vintage spirits to liquor stores (and bars), which can then sell them to the public. What are our speculations on what will happen?
• It looks like the flood gates have opened up again and eBay has seen a rise of bourbon being sold. Is this just eBay not paying attention?
• The Crown Royal Bourbon Mash Blended Canadian Whisky
• Your favorite wheated bourbon ever.
• Listen to all the Bourbon Community Roundtables.

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You may remember of Dr. Pat Heist of Ferm-Solutions back on episode 121 talking about the science of yeast. This episode feature his counterpart Shane Baker, Master Distiller of Wilderness Trail Distillery, as he answers all the questions you ever wanted to know from a Master Distiller. These guys are very well known in the bourbon world amongst distillers who know what they are doing. We take a deeper dive into grains and how this distillery has been aging product for almost 4 years and still hasn’t released a bourbon yet.

Show Notes:

• Tell us a bit about Wilderness Trail?
• Where are you located?
• Do you use the same yeast strain in all your different mash bills?
• Adam Kessell I’d like the hear about all crop yield, and the agricultural footprint of bourbon/whiskey and what safe guards we take for the long term success of the product.
• Can you continue to keep it local?
• How often do you turn away grains?
• What do you think about the bourbon boom from a craft standpoint. what needs to be done to maintain this momentum?
• Aged stock vs making money. where’s that balance?
• What advice to give to other craft distillers?
• What in your opinion is the biggest factor in distilling/aging? Mash?,distillation temperature?, entry proof?, barrel type or aging location?
• Chris Scott I want to hear more about sourcing grains. We already heard Jimmy Russell say he must source rye from Europe. That blew my mind.
• Dustin Charles Herr Discuss year to year variation of crops affect on flavors.
• Steven Granger Discuss how sourcing grains from different parts of the world makes a difference in the finished product.

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It’s a controversial topic amongst bourbon purists. Can you replicate all the effects Mother Nature and Father Time add to the bourbon that rests inside a barrel? Jacob Call, Master Distiller at O.Z. Tyler, comes from a long family lineage of distillers and decided to do take on an industry with Terressentia using TerrePURE technology. Learn about the growth of this startup and small bit about the technology in this episode.

Show Notes:

• How did you get involved with bourbon and got you here today?
• Do you have any good stories with being around Booker and Fred?
• Tell us a bit about the property here in Owensboro
• How bad of shape was this Old Medley Distillery when you got here?
• I was surprised at the size, it seems like you’re pumping out a bunch of product
• What is creating all this expansion especially when you are so new?
• Explain the TerrePURE process because you’re expediting the aging
• So it’s not just marketing BS?
• Do you worry about bourbon purists not enjoying this when you talk about age statements and the like?
• If it works so well, why wouldn’t the big boys want to license this?
• Talk a bit about the O.Z. Tyler Brand
• Will there be other brands to come out?
• So it has to be barreled for at least a year to be labeled Kentucky bourbon
• I was blown away by the taste. It actually tastes like a 4 year old bourbon.
• Where is Terressentia focused for the future?

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This new episode is a flash back to an interview Ryan performed while at Kentucky Bourbon Festival 2017 while sitting with one of the shows all-time favorite guests, Bill Thomas. In addition we’re joined by the likes of Mike Jasinski, Jared Hymen, and Mike Miller of Delilahs in Chicago. This is a regular who’s who in bourbon and it’s great take on the industry of high-end bourbon pours, and the savviness of bourbon markets.

Show notes:

• Talk about Bourbon Bonanza and Jeeps for Joy
• What is hunting like now?
• How is value perceived on a certain bottle when the seller is looking at asinine market prices?
• Is dusty bourbon supply now able to meet demand and not as hard to find?
• How do you protect yourself from fakes in the secondary market?
• Do laser codes even matter?
• How do you find those value pours at your establishments?
• View all our other Bill Thomas episodes

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In this final Bourbon Community Roundtable of 2017 (it’s the 15th edition) we look at the unique rise of trading bourbon for bitcoin weighing out the pros and cons, a look back into how the bourbon community has changed for the worse in 2017 and we cap it off talking about our favorite Bourbon and Rye releases of the year.

Show Notes:

• In recent news, we’ve talked about different ways of trading for bourbon. I’ve traded landscape work. I know Ryan has traded his services for boxes of Jefferson’s before. But the new trend is bitcoin. So before we get into the pros and cons of doing a bourbon trade with bitcoin, who has taken the leap and bought some?
• It’s really hard these days to find a good forum that doesn’t start lashing out or people that post their life’s collection of pappy that create a whirlwind of comments. At one point Bourbon Info Exchange and Bourbonr were good places you could go for just normal discussion. But lately, it’s become a game of who can make the poster feel like a douche. I’m honestly a bit appalled by it all. It has ruined the sense of community. there was once a time when you could try and become educated but everyone is quick to jump on ridiculing people now. It’s certainly not a friendly community any longer.
• Ok.. the time has finally come. Our Bourbon of the year choices. lets have a discussion about this because I know not everyone has tasted everything.
• Surprise Barrel for our fans!!!

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